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You Are Right to Be Afraid

by: Into The Woods

Mon Dec 17, 2007 at 17:19:59 PM EST


I have meant to write this diary for some time now.  A recent post from a new poster finally prompted me to get to it, not because it was so unique, but because it was so familiar.  

A quote from that post sets the stage:

I'm so scared ever since I read about it.  I have like panic attacks.

To that poster and to everyone who has shared or will share that sentiment - this Bud's for you:

Into The Woods :: You Are Right to Be Afraid
You are right to fear this thing.  

You probably won't hear that kind of statement very often because our culture has gotten it into its collective head that fear is bad.  It's not, at least not for the most part.  

Fear is like water, the right amount can keep you alive, but too much for too long and you will eventually drown in it (especially if you just sit there.)

For now, it is important for you to know that almost every single person I know who has done their homework on this thing has a very reasonable, very rational and very sizable fear of a moderate or severe pandemic.

A normal person cannot contemplate the very likely impacts of such a pandemic without experiencing both a rational concern and an emotional fright.

It would, at least temporarily, be TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it.) That does not mean the world ends.  It does not mean that 'normal' will never come back into our lives.  It means that if a moderate to severe pandemic occurs, our daily lives, and those of most of humanity, will change significantly and for the worse for longer than we would want or expect.

I think it is almost impossible to really face the prospect of a moderate or severe pandemic in your mind without triggering that most basic genetic survival tool - fear.

Many people, including many we know, may die.  Worse yet, most of them might be young people, just starting to live their lives.  Some will die from the pandemic itself and some from the impact the pandemic would have on our critical support systems such as health care, medicines, food, power, heating fuel etc.  Most of us, especially those that have lived our entire lives in comfortable places like the US, have never experienced such things in our lifetimes - at least not of such depth and duration.  We may have read about them elsewhere, but to have them settle like a cold blanket over our homes and communities, at the same time as it covers communities all across our country and the world, will be something entirely new.  

I don't say these things to add to your fear.  I say them so that you will realize that the thoughts that are bringing fear to your heart are thoughts that most of us have experienced, reacted to (sometimes very strongly), eventually accepted and adjusted to. Right now that may seem all but impossible to you.  But believe me when I say that ordinary people, just like you and me, can walk and have walked that road.

While some adjust to these thoughts by denying or ignoring them, what you will find here is people who have adjusted to those thoughts by incorporating them into their view of what the world can throw at us.  

What you will find here is people that have mastered (or at least managed) that fear not by ignoring or denying it, but by listening to what it has to tell us, learning from it, and taking actions intended to reduce the danger that threatens us all - the danger that has caused that warning bell of fear to ring.

We are alive today because in times of great danger, our ancestors listened to and learned from their fears and by doing so, they survived.

So take that gift of fear and accept it for what it truly is.  Not cowardess or weakness, but an alarm bell that is telling you there is something that threatens you and yours.  

As with every other such alarm, the first task is to check whether the threat is real or just someone jumping out of the bushes at you to get a reaction.  When I first came to this issue, my perspective was that it was the latter - someone using it to scare folks for their own purposes.  That's how I started my reading and research on this topic - expecting that it was someone's Wag-the-Bird scheme to manipulate us through fear.  

You will need to come to your own conclusion, through your own assessment and reasoning, but at the end of my initial reading (which included John Barry's historical account of the 1918 pandemic entitled the Great Influenza) I concluded that not only was the threat real, but that the public pronouncements of that time fairly radically understated both the magnitude and the potential immenence of the threat.

Once you conclude that an influenza pandemic may be a potential threat worth acknowledging and addressing in your life there are three basic steps.

Learn, plan and prepare.

This website was created to help people exactly like you do exactly those three things.

So if you have any questions, please ask.  That's why we are here.

Welcome to you.  Remember, we are all walking the same road.  

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Preparation reduces fear
I'm glad you started this Diary, Into the Woods.

I've found that making preparations has a calming effect. I'm sure my plan will need some adjustment when/if the time comes, but at least I won't have to start from scratch.

To calm the wife buy cases of chocolate, to calm the husband buy cases of booze, and to calm the children...... heck the booze and chocolate should work.


You're welcome
Reducing the unknowns and beginning to prepare for what can be predicted was a major part of putting reigns on my own initial fears - that showed up more as dread and a deep sadness for what might be lost.  

The other step that really helped was getting beyond "planning as listmaking".  It was fairly overwhelming at first, just trying to get a handle on how preparing for pandemic was different from preparing for ordinary disasters.  Then, to look at all the things I needed/wanted to do and figure out where to start.  But bit by bit it came together to where I'm ok with where we are - still working on buttressing the walls, but ok with the walls we have.

But knowing that I wasn't going nuts just because I was reacting the way I did - that came from looking around places like FW.    

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
Calm before, during, and after the storm
Yes, there is a place for healthy fear.  But, as mentioned, we should allow it to be a "mind killer" a la Dune by Frank Herbert.

And Oremus is right as well.  Preparation is the key.  Without preparation - whether that is physical and/or mental - we'll have hamstrung ourselves and our ability to react to any given threat, including panflu, with anything approaching effectiveness and efficiency.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead


we should NOT ... gee whiz, can't win for losing today
we should NOT allow it to be a "mind killer"

I'm just about ready to give up on typing today.  Can't spell.  Can't type.  Can barely talk.  I need to go back to bed.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead


[ Parent ]
Mental preparation
Without preparation - whether that is physical and/or mental - we'll have hamstrung ourselves and our ability to react to any given threat, including panflu, with anything approaching effectiveness and efficiency.
(emphasis added)

Which is the other 'upside' of working through our fears today.  

I can't imagine having to go through that adjustment in the crucible of time between pandemic announcement and pandemic arrivial - at the same time you are trying to digest all the knowledge and do JIT preparations.  

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
Even that litany recognizes that fear is not to be avoided

...
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...

There are some awfully good philosophical quotes burried in that wonderful, fanciful yarn.  

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
Sounds like Paul Ma-Duib from the book "Dune" n/t


[ Parent ]
Little desert mouse. n/t


ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
Wasn't it the Bene Gesserit litany, or somthing similar? n/t


[ Parent ]
fear is the mind killer
The Bene Gesserit Littainy against Fear.
Pg 19 of Dune

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.  


[ Parent ]
Exactly!
I've been known to repeat that on many occasions . . .


[ Parent ]
Wow...it's a theme
I started a thread on P4P the other day dealing with this in general.

You see, I, a long time, well-seasoned, and I like to think well informed Flubie, experienced a mental crash last week ending in a full-blown panic attack, something that is not unknown for me, but luckily a rarity.  I have yet to fully regain my "balance" but I am getting there.

Before anyone assumes that it had to do with Pakistan, it did not, as it preceded the news.

When I started the thread at P4P I was hopeful that by admitting this somewhat embarrassing "weakness" I would show that "hey, it does happen, even to us old salts".  Imagine my surprise when I logged in here as I settle in after my work-a-day and found this thread.

I even have a phrase for this phenomena: My knees buckle under the enormity of what we face.  It was also why SusanC's words about channeling our energies into the effort (sorry, that's not a direct quote, but the gist) helps us cope with it all struck such a cord with me.  It is exactly how I get control of the fear that sometimes threatens to overwhelm, and especially after it overwhelms.

Even the strongest and most capable person will experience mental trauma when they start adding 2+2+2+2 and realize what a severe PanFlu will do, or be logically assumed to do to life.  When we face the potential for misery and death among those we love and cherish, how can one's heart not bleed or knees periodically buckle?

We Won't Know Until We Know.


excellent Diary and comments folks!
SophieZoe, Oremus, ITW, K in Fl-

Excellent posts, excellent diary. If we were to poll ourselves, I think most fluwibies would be honest and admit to having similar,identical or worse reactions.

I'd be more worried about people who FAILED to have some type of an adjustment reaction (AR) after learning what flupandemic is, what a pandemic by H5N1 is capable doing.

The first time I read "The Great Influenza" the hair on my back of my neck stood up. Literally. I had to read it in small doses because as a nurse, I knew exactly what these disease process(es) were that he discussed. Emotionally and mentally my head felt like it was in a blender for months.

We face our fellow citizens overcoming their own AR, and whether it's at home, work, or in our neighborhoods we guide/teach/lead them as others once did for us.

Sadly, that Herculean task is merely the tip of the iceberg in front of us. Now THAT still scares me, but I will always come back here to my 'flu home' where I can talk to people I'll never likely meet.

We are family here, and together we have become flu warriors, nurses, teachers, investigators, scientists-whether or not that is our career choice or formal education.

We take on new hats as the situation demands it, and are all the better for it. And we are proud of our 'hats' despite how tattered they become from the storm, because we have darned well earned it.


It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.


[ Parent ]
good one, Grace
Grace, that was excellent.  I don't know what I could add to it, but thanks for writing it.

nothing left to do but :) :) :)

[ Parent ]
Thank you SarahS, from the bottom of my heart :)


It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.

[ Parent ]
I was scared too.
Now, when I get really nervous, I go and do a quick inventory count on my preps, and they help calm me down.  If it's really a bad day (like the day we found out about Pakistan), then I do a large grocery trip, buy a full shopping cart of cans and bags of rice, beans, pasta...whatever it takes to calm me down.  Honest, shopping is really good for the soul.  

And then I watch and wait, and pray.


bidirectional link to/from our Adjustment Reactions wikipage
http://www.fluwikie.com/pmwiki...

And thanks!

You arm yourself to the teeth just in case.  You don't leave the gun near the baby's hand.


Be afraid of those without fear.
In To the Woods,

  I like your post and think that fear keeps us alive as well as
"We are alive today because in times of great danger, our ancestors listened to and learned from their fears and by doing so, they survived. "

 - Sorry I'm not as HTML profeciant as you are. No box to go with it. :o)

 IMHO - be afraid of those who play with electricity without fear or respect.
 Be afraid of those who are cavilier with running chainsaw or (fire arm word removed).
 Be afraid of those rappel down rocks or buildings with a rope or cord they found.

 The part about "I will know the fear and let it pass by me"

 I hope to have time to write about taking H5N1 papers to my sons school today. The WHO graph on fluwiki home page really hits people. The school nurse did not want to look at it - but could not put it down.

 I consoled her with "if you think you can do something about global warming than you can do someting about H5N1" Also there is a guy in my office who is studying the book of Revelation but can not talk about H5N1. I know the book of Revelation says some will be saved, but this goes for H5N1 also - right?

  Fear is good. Fear of running out of gas keeps us from running out of gas.

Regards,
Kobie


...
i wouldn't be afraid of the folks in your examples....  but i wouldn't get too close to them either.  certainly wouldn't belay the rappel guy - if he doesn't care for his rope, he can figure it out on the way down...  ditto for the chainsaw guy, tho i'd give not just him a wide berth, but whatever he's cutting on.  and watch out for sparky..  forget baseball, i'd watch out for darwin and murphy on steroids...  there will be no safety nets.

[ Parent ]
...
a corollary to that...  the folks that remain alive 5 years after...  won't need safety nets.  that will be a different world.  unfortunately, there's not a good way to guarantee passage from here to there...  we prep, and plan, and hope...    a constant cycle of identify and adapt..  the overcome part...  we'll just have to see.  our food chain will be disrupted...  wonder what effects that will have on other species..  gotta figure the wolves will do pretty well, with all the folks that try to get by in the woods, that have never been in the woods.  unless the climate shifts dramatically...  folks can put up seed, but it won't help if we transition to a dust bowl...  it won't be boring.

[ Parent ]
talking about faith issues
When overlapping H5N1 with a Christian believer...

Many believers tend to think of dying as gain. I will gladly shed this skin for a perfected body and being present with my Lord.

When talking with fellow believers I stress that we are sojourners here, this is not our home, what happens in the future is not ours to know. For me, rather than concern ourselves with our own deaths and the deaths of our loved ones, we should concern ourselves with being the body here and now. Faith action is healing to the soul and sometimes we can be so heavenly minded that we are no earthly good. What would Jesus have done during a pandemic? Oh my, now that is a question isn't it.

Are we the generation that is living out the seals and trumpets? I believe so but that is not *my* focus, that is all in God's hands. I have studied that book and have realized the blessing(it's the only book that promises a blessing to those who read and understand it).

We are all dying anyway, some sooner, some later, LIVE LIFE BOLD. That is what I tell my fellow believers. Live like Jesus would have.

Does that mean there is no fear? Nope. Fear is a good thing to have. Jesus himself had some moments in the Garden of Gethsemane where I believe he felt some fear. He asked if the cup could pass from him, yet not his will but God's be done was his prayer.

Thanks for this topic Into the Woods.

Pray for all people and rulers
1Timothy 2:1-4

(Extending the culture of life.)

http://preparedcitizens.wordpr...


[ Parent ]
Standing firm Comparison/contrast
Standing firm,

  Standingfirm you make some good points.

  He could have sen a huge difference in the purpose and outcome of revelations v.s. H5N1.

Thanks.
Kobie


[ Parent ]
But what about the unbelievers?
I see what you say to those who 'believe' - but what of those who do not?  They are equally deserving of whatever help is available, equally deserving to live their lives.  The branch of Christianity convinced of things such as seals and trumpets isn't even all that widespread among the Christian community, much less the larger community that is the world.

I think there are many who would be put off by such discussions, and that religion might be best seen as a private matter; otherwise, there are many times when it seems a path toward exclusion rather than salvation.

It just seems to be something that should be largely irrelevant when dealing with things such as pandemic, and talking to those who do not share the belief system.  Some of us are very disturbed by those who view dying as a benefit greater than life itself.


[ Parent ]
this was specific
This was addressing one experience with gentleman who was reading his Bible, and specifically the Book of Revelation. My answer was framed around that premise. I did not bring this topic up.

As far as pandemics are concerned there really is no test of faith is there? If I am giving aid, I am not asking what someone believes first. The only time faith would come up, should come up, is if the person I am talking with brings it up first. For the purposes of this discussion that is why the topic came up.

When speaking to someone that does have a specific faith then why should we avoid the discussion if it brings comfort to them? I never have told someone to believe as I do and won't start now, but to deny what I believe in order to not offend someone else is not right either especially when addressing a faith concern of someone else.

I am sorry that you find it discomfiting that heaven is appealing to me but it is. I did not say that I do not value life, obviously I do since I am fighting so hard for mine and for the life of others as well, but yes, death is gain for me.



Pray for all people and rulers
1Timothy 2:1-4

(Extending the culture of life.)

http://preparedcitizens.wordpr...


[ Parent ]
again as I said
I am sorry that you find it discomfiting that heaven is appealing to me but it is.

We discourage discussions on religion precisely for this reason, that it is unnecessarily divisive.  There are lots of good reasons to discuss religion, and lots of places on the internet to do that.  If you feel an urge to discuss those issues, please make use of the abundant resources available elsewhere, and not on this forum.

Thank you.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
I regret the comparison
SusanC,

  I regret the post in some ways. I will stick to asteroids, super volcanoes, peak oil, global warming, nuclear war and such.  

  Nuff said.

Kobie

   


[ Parent ]
there are reasons why
we ask everyone to keep religion away from these discussions.  Some of the responses you read, when this subject comes up, tell us why.

We all have our own interpretation and our relationship to spirituality.  We respect everyone's beliefs, and ask everyone to refrain from commenting on this subject.

Thank you.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
The original point was surviving the enevitable.
  Hi.

  In the original post "I consoled her with "if you think you can do something about global warming than you can do someting about H5N1" Also there is a guy in my office who is studying the book of Revelation but can not talk about H5N1. I know the book of Revelation says some will be saved, but this goes for H5N1 also - right? "

 The point was the guy did not want to talk about H5N1 at all but was studying another possibly upcomming event of world wide proportions. No endorsement is made either way nor is there any attempt to compare H5N1 with anything spiritual.

  It just struck me as odd that H5N1 made him nervouse but the other possibly larger event did not.

  I do not want to halt the conversation with a seqway into beliefs and faith systems.

 Just know that you may find some people unwilling to talk about H5N1 but fully able to talk about other things. An asteroid wiping out all life on earth. Yellow Stone national park eruping so as to wipe out 80% of America and plunge the world into long term ice age. Even nuclear war or peak oil.

  I just find no rhyme or reason as to what scares others or why they can talk about this but not that.

KObie


[ Parent ]
Random Acts of Blindness
It just struck me as odd that H5N1 made him nervouse but the other possibly larger event did not.

The 2007 report from Trust for American's Health mentioned something that I think relates - that people don't want to think about things they can't control.  Sandman also lists that aspect as one of the factors that increases "outrage" factor - that something that is both beyond your control and essentially nondiscriminating, can just arbitrarily and randomly take you out, or not.  No fault dooms you and no inherent goodness can save youl.

Some of the other things you mention are also in that category of 'beyond our control' but are so low probability that you can talk about them without real worry. (Yes I occasionally think about Yellowstone going postal on us.  No. I am not using that as my worst case scenario for disaster preparedness planning.)

Some of the other threats are of disputed probability (please see other websites for end-times predictions) but come with some sense of control (if I am 'chosen' I will have a better outcome).  For some, that makes it not only ok to discuss, but a welcome discussion and for some, a welcome event.

Pandemic has much higher probability (no gs, I don't have a number in mind), but is random to the point where I have to acknowledge it could happen to people like me - to me.  It changes my world view to acknowledge that, and frankly I was not really in the mood to change my world view.  So I could have shut my eyes, my ears and my mind and just ignored it, or ridiculed it and kept my view of the world pandemic-free.

But my dad always said, if you're walking down the tracks, turning your back on the train does not make it go away.  

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
Understanding someones POV
and where there fear is coming from AND/OR where their comfort will come from, is important when you are addressing their needs and how to help them in a time of crisis.

It is important for me to learn about as many points of view as I can so that I can help a broader base of people.

That doesn't mean that I have to buy into the issues that the person is presenting.

Limited POV, limited effectiveness...'nuff said!

Pray for all people and rulers
1Timothy 2:1-4

(Extending the culture of life.)

http://preparedcitizens.wordpr...


[ Parent ]
Speak their phschological language
Standing firm.

 POV, IMHO, are part what people value and in part how they approach life. Ones past influences how one approaches life.

 Here is something from "Working with Govenors and Mayors - Part 2"  

 I hope it is worth the read.

 Have you heard the old saying "When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail - for that is the tool at hand?"

 Know yourself and those you talk to:
To a diplomat everything seems like a negotiation - talk it out to find common ground and then negotiate a win - win solution without conflict or blood shed.
To an engineer everything is a logical process - figure out what is needed, break it down into steps and build the solution.
To the warrior, competitor, gammer engagements are seen in terms of conflict and tactics. Regardless of the obstacle they can find a better way to over come it and do it.
Peace keepers look for conflict resolution and compromise before time is wasted on pointless mis understandings, mis-communication or not agreeing on the facts.
Teachers see resolution through education about people, facts new solutions. The answer is to be learned or imagined.

 Combined with these personalties are people approach. Some are independent scouts going out on their own wanting the challenge of doing it "the hard way." Why buy it when you can build it!
Akin to them are tinkers who find great joy in discovery of new things and new ways. New inventions, new laws, new programs gives our generation the chance to do progressive acts never before imagined.
 Others need the support or consensus of others for team effort. Some want neither but a ready made solution they can use with out having to read a twenty page manual or to "think about it."

 Finally some people nostalgically love to carry on what works. To get back to nature, to use what has worked, to follow tradition and be part of a larger group spanning the decades and generations. On the other hand some can not wait to break free of the past and join the future.

  When explaining H5N1 try to see how they approach life in order to offer the best solution.

  In my honest opinion now is not the time to be a peace keeper nor one ignoring the signs around us as "byproducts of maturing technology." Know yourself and those around you that what ever they may do they where told and made an informed decision.

kobie


[ Parent ]
It is okay to be afraid
What is more important is what you do about it.  It is the fight or flight mechanism that needs to be addressed in any situation where we find our adrenaline flow increasing - and thinking about a pandemic can do that!

Learn - plan - prepare - these are the best words for responding to this state of mind.

I am afraid now that all the people I have spent 2 years telling they need to prepare have decided it has gone away again - thanks to the lack of media coverage etc that gets to the majority of people.

I wonder when will be the best time to get them "fired up" again - if they were patting me on the head 2 years ago, what will be their reaction now if I keep pushing the point?

The good news - every time I think about using some of our preps, my partner tells me that is a big no-no - we may need that stuff sooner than you think - he always tells me.  

Eat pudding first - who know's what might happen next! - Anon


fear-
Only a fool is not afraid when there is something to fear.

My mamma didn't raise no fool!

I know a terrifying situation when I see one, and H5N1 looks like a balls-out knee-weakening horrific threat from where I stand.  I've said it before- H5N1 has scared me to the point of gibbering terror.

I will say, however, that now that I have made preparations and am more or less ready, that I am a lot less concerned.  When I know I have done what can be done to get ready for this thing, most of the time I don't worry about it.  Most of the time.

Every now and again, though, I get another motivator like the Chinese announcement or the Pakistan one, or.....  So I think of something else to prep.  And then I am both readier and happier.

KEEP THE GRID UP!
Prudent People Prepare Properly

"better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!"


Not too afraid...yet
More like "very concerned"!  Over the past few months I have had a few brief flashes of "OMG, the people I love and know, and myself, may not be alive a year from now!"  Soemtimes, while in a busy grocery store, for example, I try to visualize what the same place would look like in the midst of a prolonged pandemic--the nearly bare shelves, with tattered or rotting merchandise; few customers, never mind employees...hand-written signs, proclaiming, "NO MILK UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, SORRY" or even, "LOOTERS/SHOPLIFTERS WILL BE SHOT" (if things/shortages get REALLY bad).

Then, I mentally slap myself, and tell myself, "Whatever will happen, you'll just have to deal with it.  The best thing you can do is stock up sensibly, stay healthy, make a plan, educate yourself about 1918 and the current BF, and pray.  That's all you can do, but it's a lot, nevertheless."

I try to calm myself, and review my plan, and ramp up my preps buying.


I do the same thing.
I was at Walmart picking up some preps and looking at the carts all around me on line. These families with children have carts filled with nonsense. The food isn't nutritious, just lots of junkfood. I smiled as I was paying for my cases of spinach, yams, chili, etc. because they were looking at me as if I were the oddball. But seriously, it's frightening to know that so many young families are not prepared. They probably don't have 2 days worth of groceries in the house, and less water. I'm so tired of my family/friends telling me that they're not going to bother prepping because they'll just come to my house. I don't even broach the subject with them anymore. I live on Long Island and work in Manhattan. I ride the Long Island Railroad. It's just so crowded and I think it will turn very ugly very quickly in the city.

[ Parent ]
"they'll just come to my house"
Mina, I've taken the same approach as you. I've told my family, a couple close friends, a neighbor and some co-workers. My family is 1100 miles away and the friends have taken some initiative to prepare for harship. The aggravation I've experienced (it's been at least 6 or 7 months) is where after talking about business continuity plans or spikes in H5N1 activity at work, the response I get is the same as what you get: "I'll just come to your house...". I promptly inform the person that "you certainly will not" and leave it at that.
I find myself looking at other people's shopping carts as well and can now quickly determine if someone is prepping or doing 'as needed' shopping. You can really get a feel for your area and whether or not people have gotten the message by what they have in their cart. In spite of the "Are you prepared Colorado?" placards on the grocery shelves I see far less people getting the basic items when I'm out, and that includes my frequent trips to one of the "Club" mega stores.

[ Parent ]
Have them watch "Old Friends" video on YouTube
and then tell them they can expect a packet of pop tarts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
One of my favorite vids.

To calm the wife buy cases of chocolate, to calm the husband buy cases of booze, and to calm the children...... heck the booze and chocolate should work.


[ Parent ]
Great acting. Makes me wonder. makes me wonder. n/t


[ Parent ]
Mina, that's very difficult to face.
Do you then tell them that you're planning to lock the door to stay uninfected, no matter who comes knocking?  ("Why would you come to my house (innocent and puzzled look).  You know that I'm not going to be sociable during a pandemic, so --don't come without an invitation - and you're not invited. [stolen from LMW@BullRun])

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

[ Parent ]
I am a lot more blunt than that, but that's OK.
I tell them not to show up without an invitation, and I tell them that they DON'T HAVE ONE.  

I say "My making you aware of a serious threat is not an invitation to mooch off me!"  I tell them I am taking enough risks letting them know about the threat, and will not endanger my family and friends by letting uninvited unscreened people in during a pandemic.

I have had several people say, smiling, something like "Oh, LMW, you wouldn't shoot me, would you?"  to which I reply, "Only if you tried to kill me by forcing your way in while infected with a highly lethal disease after you had been told to leave."  That usually shuts them up, and makes them think.  

Some of them say, "well, but what about my kids?  you wouldn't turn away my kids to starve, would you?"  To which I respond, "Aren't you better off making sure you never find out the answer to that question?"

I confess I am surprised how often I get that, or how many people think that their lack of preparedness somehow creates a moral claim on those who did prepare, or makes attempted theft, robbery or murder somehow acceptable.

They had their warning, just as I have had, and had the chance to prepare, just as I have had.  They must choose whether to go out on the town or go out and get prepared, and they must abide the result.

Any unprotected person out during a pandemic can reasonably be assumed to be infectious.  An attempt by an infectious person to invade another's home, or even to approach within 6 feet of another after being warned to keep their distance during a pandemic is a credible threat of lethal force, in my view.

I hope, for their sake, and mine, that they listen.

KEEP THE GRID UP!
Prudent People Prepare Properly

"better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!"


[ Parent ]
Would you shoot me?
I have had several people say, smiling, something like "Oh, LMW, you wouldn't shoot me, would you?"

Nah, you're a friend, I'd just stun you and roll you out into the road.  

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
Pandemic Leaches
I'm so tired of my family/friends telling me that they're not going to bother prepping because they'll just come to my house.

Look them in the eye and with as much compassion (or smiling threat) as you can muster and tell them, "Good Luck with that."

If they ask you what that means you can either just say "It means Good Luck with that" or you can go into a longer explanation about how any meager surplus you might have will be reserved for people who never got the warning or were too poor to do anything about it - and as you are neither, well Good Luck with that."


ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
What really bothers me is...
one friend who is wealthy, intelligent & aware of the coming PF, said the idea of preparing scares her and she said she would 'just die'...or come to my house. I told her that she's responsible for herself (no youngster) and I am responsible for a family of 8. I've noticed our friendship has declined since. It takes alot of forethought, planning, expense and effort to prep. I don't believe it says 'sucker' on my forehead.

[ Parent ]
Ways to break through
I've heard the "I'll just die" one too.  It's an emotional response that might be reality for some few people, but for the overwhelming majority, is just an excuse to not face something that scares them.  But recognize that it does scare them and all the rest of us too.

I just talked about this in another thread:

http://www.newfluwiki2.com/sho...

One thing to think about is whether she thinks she does not know how to prepare. It is a major hurdle for folks who know they should but have not prepared.  

Sometimes the more pampered we are, the less capable we think we are of doing things for ourselves.  

You could give her a list of things to stock up on (start with 2 weeks worth) and volunteer to go with her if she wants to go on a stockpile run - followed by a beer.

Tell her you would be happy to have her join you as long as she brings the things on this list.

From the sounds of it she is probably not prepared for any emergency, so it might also help to relate the pandemic preparations to all-hazards preparations (such as power outages from icestorms etc) that are less intimidating to her view of the world as pandemic-free.  

Depends on what motivates her (or others) you can also try to convince them to prepare so that they can help other people (either to prepare now or who need help later.)

Some interesting insights about warning apathetic people:
http://www.psandman.com/col/wa...

And sometimes you sow the seed and wait.  But try not to be impatient with people who won't open their eyes yet.  We will need each other if this thing comes our way.  

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
I'll just die
Very few people go to the grave without a fight.

To calm the wife buy cases of chocolate, to calm the husband buy cases of booze, and to calm the children...... heck the booze and chocolate should work.

[ Parent ]
I get that overwhelmed reponse too
"Sometimes the more pampered we are, the less capable we think we are of doing things for ourselves."  

When I talk to people about prepping, I get a few recurrent responses, but it seems to boil down to: overwhelmed with the magnitude of the potential event, the mind shuts down; does not feel imminent or real, no need to act yet. It takes real time and effort to process this issue.

I remember when I first started running through scenarios of what effects a moderate-severe pandemeic might have on daily life, I felt that knot in the stomach fear response when I actually realized what may occur (I confess that I still have not been able to watch the "old friends" video yet without turning it off at the first knock- just too scary).

But with time, I worked through it. I have a family and animal dependents.  I am the one with the knowledge and concern and it was up to me to deal with it. I pushed through the fear, thinking about how we could function as a family and survive in the face of supply disruptions, job and school closures and social unrest. It made me feel empowered to prep.

I remember my mate's initial resistance about prepping, and how I just had to be firm and let them know that it was going to occur with or without their help.  Now we work as a team, focusing on building infrastructure to get us through this or other supply disruptions. We don't talk to others about our preps, but I try to take every opportunity to educate others.  Which brings me to the two typical responses that I receive (above).  It is very encouraging to be able to participate in forums where others 'get it'.  I would feel very alone without flublogia.

Happy holidays everyone!


[ Parent ]
tell her chances are she won't die
but will live to literally physically bury her family.  As happened to many in 1918.

A 2% CFR means 1% or less of people will die, but is enough to ensure that EVERY city will have severe mass fatality problems.  How would she like to have to go out and get food for her family knowing she may be tripping over bodies on the street?



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
mass grave from 1918
in Philadelphia, the city of un-preparedness and denial, in 1918.  From John Barry's book.





All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
1918 Philly
A dear friend told me her aunt died in the 1918 pandemic. Her mother-only a child at the time-remembered vividly having to leave her sister's coffin at the cemetary gates as it was to be buried in one of these mass graves.

It was extremely distressful to her family for the rest of their lives to not know exactly where her body lay.

It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.


[ Parent ]
such survivor experience
is likely to be one reason why the 1918 story was so readily forgotten, and not written about.

This was the biggest killer of all time, in all of history, and yet so few people know that it happened.  Crosby in his book "America's Forgotten Pandemic" talks about how astonishing it is.  



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
look closely at the photo
and you will realize these are all older men.

Burying the young, is one of the most traumatic things that can happen to communities.  Doing that on the scale that is being represented by this one photo, is something that should send shockwaves up the spine of many.  We need to pay attention to such lessons from history, is my very humble opinion.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
How to respond to the "I'll just die" folks-
I ask them whether they have car insurance.

They say, "Sure I do, I have to, the law requires it and I can't renew my registration without it."

Sez I- "Yeah, but would you have insurance even if it was not required?"

"Well, sure I would."

I say "Well, why is that?  I mean, you aren't expecting to have a car wreck on the way home, are you?"

"No! of course I'm not expecting that!"

"So why do you have insurance for something you don't think will happen?"

"Well," they say "Accidents do happen!"

"OK, I agree that accidents can happen, and it's prudent to buy insurance for something you think will never happen."  I usually pause and look at them and say "So why is it that you are not buying insurance against something more serious than a car accident, something every expert says WILL HAPPEN eventually?  Hmmm?"

"Uhhhhh...."

Sometimes this works.

KEEP THE GRID UP!
Prudent People Prepare Properly

"better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!"


Good approach. n/t


ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
Funny what you start thinking about…..
Last week my folks wanted me to look at a house in town. They want to be closer to stuff instead of the rural area they live in now.
Here are the things I started paying attention too
Would that big steel gate close at the front entrance and would it keep a crowd out? Oh good, a creek just a little way down the hill. nice gas fireplace. Lots of storage space in basement. I see a large church with in walking distance...Funny what you start thinking about.....  

Such a great diary!
ITW, just wanted to drop a note and thank you for this diary. I know it was written a couple of years ago about a different virus in mind but I have found it comforting to read. It made me feel "normal".

With friends and family now calling me the Flu Nut I sometimes question whether I'm thinking correctly about the seriousness of this flu. Am I over reacting? Could this virus be not as serious as I think it is? I read news from around the globe and come here to post, I read diaries (some of which are way above me) but I get the gist of them and I KNOW I'm right. It doesn't make it any less scary. But knowing there are others (even seasoned preppers) who are going through the same thing and feeling the same feelings is a huge relief and a very "normalizing" experience.

I hope that by commenting this gets bumped up some so that others who are new to the forums and to prepping can also read this diary and feel their in good and like-minded company. Thanks again!

Have a good holiday!

Tess

 



"History never looks like history when you are living through it." ~John W. Gardner


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