What if You Only Have 24 Hours To Prep?

Thanks for bringing this over, Bronco Bill!

Add baking soda for ORS.
Trash bags.
Duct tape, for taping trash bag inside toilet bowl after water/sewer stops working.
(Trash can to hold those filled garbage bags?)
More toilet paper.

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

---

by: Jane @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 14:43:28 PM UTC

....

MORE more toilet paper!  :)
Just can't stock enough! LOL!


www.EmergencyHomePreparation.org -- A 'card-catalog' style of prepping information.   -

---

by: Readymom @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 16:07:37 PM UTC

Re: Toilet Paper

A while back, someone on Old Yeller was saying they had been taking inventory of all their preps, and when they got to their TP stocks, realized that they had been buying TP on every trip to the store.
Once they tallied everything up, they realized they bought enough TP to last 13 years!!!! LOL!!

---

by: Bronco Bill @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 17:29:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I remember that person, BB.

I told her she could use the tp for trade and she thanked me!  

"I am opposed to any form of tyranny over the mind of man."  Thomas Jefferson

---

by: History Lover @ Sun May 25, 2008 at 23:47:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

At the rate prices are rising,

I think 13 years worth of toilet paper might just be better than money in the bank, right now.

---

by: Clawdia @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 00:45:47 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

TP

I'm stocking tp too but also gathering phone books to use in case we run out.  They can also be used to start fires (BBQ - fire pit - fire places, etc) and the pages are absorbent enough to use as substitute paper towels or tp if need be.

---

by: aznugget @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 20:30:17 PM UTC

Shredded paper - may be good one for this too

As someone who has a small bin full of old bills and statements.. the thought occurred to me that the shredded paper is an excellent fire starter... good and bad to keep around for very reason. :P

---

by: Quartzman @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 at 03:50:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

...

red shop rags (typically 50-100 per bag), that can be washed, bleached, and re-used (not flushed) when the TP is long gone.  toilet seat lids for 5 gallon buckets, buckets.  

---

by: c3jmp @ Fri May 23, 2008 at 21:39:30 PM UTC

Only 24 hours ...

Well, the first thing I would do is take a quick visual inventory of what I already had in the house -- food, medicines, etc.  What I would prep would depend on the kind of cash I had in the house.  I'd also put some thought into how I planned on cooking should utilities become an issue.

First on my personal list would be a few flats of bottled water.  (As they were used I would re-fill them although that really isn't a recommended practice at the moment according to health experts.)

Next I would try and balance out a food plan to maximize what I already had in the house.  I would get bulk staple items like rice, pastas, egg noodles, etc.  But I would also get things like those boxed, complete casserole mixes.  The boxed casseroles may seem a little pricy at first glance, but unless you can come up with a better alternative in 24 hours, they are really good.  Given that they generally have the canned meat that you need to go with them makes them even better ... assuming you have a way of cooking.

I would fill all of my fuel containers and keep my vehicle(s) topped off.  I'd also get the fuel -- propone, white gas, charcoal -- for whatever grill or outdoor cooking that I normally do.

Note:  I'd start using all of my freezer food first and cooking two meal's worth at a time to conserve on power/fuel.

I'd include all the personal hygiene needs for my family as well ... deoderant, toothpaste, feminine products, etc.

Get basic cleaning supplies.

I'd load up on the drinkables, but keep the sodas for emergencies or treats much later in the menu planning.

I'd also get good locks for whatever location I am storing my food.  That will make everyone think before they get into the food and prevent people from "sneaking" into stuff.

There are so many things I'd want to throw in the buggy.  What I did and did not would depend on available money, transportation, and where I was going - such as a regular grocery store vs a SAMs or similar.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

---

by: KathyinFL @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:48:48 AM UTC

I would hope that we,

being as familiar as we all are with the situation, will already have bare essentials such as can openers, candles and batteries etc. stowed away, since these are things that have a long shelf life. Things such as Gatorade or canned milk would be good to wait on til the last minute since they don't have a long shelf life.


The beatings will continue until morale improves.

---

by: iwrote1 @ Sat May 24, 2008 at 13:04:15 PM UTC

24 hour list from old yeller

Hi all,
Here is a more inclusive list that was in the same topic, again from ricewiki, just further down. It is the list I used and still refer to.
Thanks BB for bringing this over!
(sorry I don't know how to post this any other way than what I've done. Please feel free to clean it up if necessary!)
*************
ricewiki - at 14:57
OK everyone, here's the penultimate draft (combines mine, Kate's and above comments) before posting it separately. Please read the above thread if you're new to the discussion before posting any suggestions/comments - just to be sure we're all on the same page. After receiving further suggestions I'll finalize it and post. You can also email me for a final copy in Word attachment at rice wiki (all one word) at hotmail dot com. Thanks everyone. (I hope all my formatting works below, just trying it now.)
If You Only Have 24 Hours To Prepare for H5N1 Quarantine (please copy and circulate)
Note to Fluwikians: Remember, this "If You Only Have 24 Hours" list is different from a "How Do I Start To Prep" list.
Both are directed at people who haven't started prepping yet, but the former is for dire straits once the pandemic becomes "official" or there is an otherwise obvious escalated emergency pandemic situation.
The latter is simply for the calm before the storm, like right now, while we all still have (forseeable) time to prep.
This list is for individuals who have failed to stockpile goods and supplies for the event of an avian flu pandemic. It assumes that there has been some official or obvious sign given that a state of pandemic has been reached and that the best hope for protection will be self-quarantine. It has been said that a virus at this stage will be able to pass to any point on the globe within 18 hours. YOU NEED TO STOCK UP NOW.
NB: If you are buying last-minute food, water and supplies when a human-to-human pandemic has been announced as spreading, please sit down for 5 minutes and make a plan of action. It is not a good idea to grab everything you can - BE STRATEGIC. You will not be able to get everything you need for a 3-month quarantine in one shopping trip! This list is based upon what you should attempt to accomplish in the ultimately unfortunate of "last-minute" trips - when everyone else will be "panic shopping" beside you. Focus your energy on grabbing foods that provide the most nutrition.
TIPS/SUGGESTIONS:
Pull the children out of school immediately and start the family plan into action.
Cell phones may come in handy - communication would be handy as you pick everything up around the stores and around town.
If you own multiple cars, have a family member drive each car (single-file, caravan style) to the same store. Each of you take a cart and a portion of this list. Meet back at the checkout and load all of the cars.
NB: If the store has run out of an item you need, MOVE ON. IT WILL NOT BE THE END OF THE WORLD. Do not waste time in this situation. Go to another store until you get it.
NB2: You will need cash! Some stores may no longer accept credit or debit in this situation. In others, the lines may be down. Don't risk your survival because you do not have adequate cash on hand. And be prepared to spend considerably more than you would at any other grocery store run.
IN LOOSE ORDER OF IMPORTANCE:
From home: call to renew your prescriptions for pick-up. Call doctor to arrange for more.
Extract 60-75% cash from your bank account (save some for online bill payments; you may also need to make arrangements re: investments, but this may need to be done later at this point. Right now you need to get supplies.) or the full amount your daily limit will allow.
From the local drugstore/healthcentre/pharmacy:
N95 masks (NIOSH-rated Medical Particulate Masks) and Disposable gloves (latex, vinyl or the best yet is Nitrile): (you will need these in the event you leave the house again to pick up a forgotten or needed item)
bandaids
your prescription refills
vitamins: C and multivitamins
tylenol/acetominaphen, aspirin/ ibuprofen (many uses); 3 bottles each
any other over-the-counter meds you know you need (customize here)
8 packages of 12-rolls toilet paper
5 boxes kleenex
batteries: know the kind you will need. AA's - buy at least 10 packages.
candles and/or tealights - buy whatever is left; at least 50
matches and lighters: buy 2 boxes matches; 10 lighters
tampons if needed: year's worth if you can: 20 boxes of 40's; OR, 1 "keeper"
soap
shampoo and conditioner
toothpaste
From the local grocery store:
as many bags rice you can afford (remember, you need to be able to buy some of everything on this list)
20 cans beans (90 would be needed for 3 mos)
20 cans tuna/chicken/fish
10 cans vegetables
30-60 jugs water (and you are going to need to come back for more!)
20 bags pasta
10 jars pasta sauce
2 big bags potatoes (high in energy; keep long time)
20 cans tomato paste (make your own pasta sauce)
energy bars; protein drinks;
bag/boxes of mixed nuts
bags of dried oatmeal
bags dried beans
5 large bottles vegetable oil (sunflower, safflower and olive are healthiest)
box sugar (biggest you can find)
box salt (biggest you can find)
bottles Gatorade (orally rehydrates) or vitaminized water
pet food and/or baby supplies if needed
extra manual can-opener (yours might break!)
extra scissors (might lose yours!)
5 jars peanut butter
3 loaves bread
10 bars/tubs butter
10 bricks cheese
frozen meat
soups that don't need added water
garbage bags
Go to local hardware/supplies store and buy:
propane cooking stove
propane
flashlights (3)
firestarters
water purification tablets
battery-operated radio
On way home: stock up on tank of gas, extra gas. Fill any portable gas containers you may have or can buy at the gas station.
LESS ESSENTIAL ITEMS to pick up if you have TIME, MONEY and they are AVAILABLE:
chocolate
coffee, teas
3 jars jam
boxes macaroni and cheese
bag onions
boxes powdered milk
box crackers, bag cookies
peppers/lettuce/tomatoes
other fresh fruit and veggies
other vitamins if you know you need them: Omega-3, antioxidants, meds for diarrhea
key spices you use: garlic, mixed spice shakers, bouillon, cinnamon, turmeric, curry, ginger
q-tips, rubbing alcohol, a ready-made first-aid kit
shaving cream and razors
Paper plates, plastic forks, knives, spoons
paper towels
laundry soap
REALLY LESS ESSENTIAL (for urban survival) ITEMS TO WAIT FOR ANOTHER TRIP TO PICK UP and then ONLY IF YOU REALLY NEED THEM:
candy, alcohol, tobacco (could be used for trade; but you should quit smoking at this point)
tools; rope; tape;
cleaning supplies (bleach; disinfectant hand sanitizer with more than 60% alcohol; liquid dish detergent; big jug white vinegar)
Condiments - mayo, ketchup, BBQ Sauce, Salsa, creamers (presumably you will already have some of these anyway)
Lotion and all other more luxurious personal care items
entertainment items like books (you will already have some of these anyway)
FOR ALL OTHER ESSENTIAL SURVIVAL ITEMS YOU WILL NEED A SECOND TRIP (at your own risk)
please consult standard avian flu preparedeness guides on FluWiki

---

by: ABH47 @ Sun May 25, 2008 at 13:50:35 PM UTC

...

so...  with the changes since 2006, fuel and food, plus a more comprehensive understanding of JIT and complex supply chains..  do folks still think people will be able to achieve very much within 24 hrs, in terms of the thread topic?  with 2-3 days food in most stores for their surrounding populations......  ??

i can see it if it's a handful of families with bulk stores nearby, but if they're competing with everyone else in the area...  not really..

---

by: c3jmp @ Sun May 25, 2008 at 17:04:16 PM UTC

The question has 2 branches, I think.

The first is:
What advice do we have for people who just found out about pandemic and aren't ready at all?

The second is:
What last-minute stuff should we preppers try to get?  I think it was Eccles who said he'd go to stores that most people wouldn't think of, like a gas-station convenience store for milk (some might even have fruit) and a hardware store.

We preppers who've been here a long time should already have most of the stuff on the lists above.  Also, isn't there a diary about Procrastinated Preps?  (I have my own lists in that category.  blush-)

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

---

by: Jane @ Sun May 25, 2008 at 17:49:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Pick up...

Toothbrushes, shampoo, candy, granola-type bars, backpacks, journal to record ones' life-events, cheap/easy games for kids/adults ie packs of cards, coloring books, crayons, some of the grade-specific books, white sheets, fresh veggies/fruits for while they last (will stretch out stored stuff), charcoal,orange and black spray paint, aluminum foil, matches/BBQ style lighter, tents, CASH AND COINS, sunglasses, sunblock, seeds for veggies and fruits (if the right season to buy).....

It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.

---

by: Grace RN @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 19:45:15 PM UTC

What advice do we have for people who just found out about pandemic and aren't ready at all?

The polite answer:

1. Anything that is edible now or canned food,salt,sugar

2. Non-electrical sources of light, heat, matches too.

3. Non-electric radio and batteries

4. Water

5. Any medications you will need, fever and cough reducers

6. Soap for laundry and dishes, shovel, large trash bags

7. White sheets, bleach

8. TP, paper towels.

9. Ammo if you own a gun.

10. Get your hands on as much cash and coin you can.

It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.

---

by: Grace RN @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 19:53:36 PM UTC

Ammo, ammo, ammo

It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.

---

by: Grace RN @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 19:54:33 PM UTC

Rice & Beans

I'm a regular reader of this site and I see "rice and beans" repeatly as a staple...especially with the words "as much as you can get" attached to them.  This is probably a stupid question, but why?  Why those two as opposed to other staples?  Give me some ideas - or links - to ways to prepare them other than the obvious.

Linda

---

by: aznugget @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 21:12:31 PM UTC

aznugget---here are a couple of recipes

At these links:

http://www.newfluwiki2.com/sho...

http://www.newfluwiki2.com/sho...

http://www.newfluwiki2.com/sho...

In the left side bar of the Forum front page, do a search for "Rice and Beans" and see how many items come up.

Also, do a search for KathyInFl. She has what seems like a few hundred recipes for rice and beans! :-)

---

by: Bronco Bill @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 21:58:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

aznugget, you can sustain

life on rice and beans. You won't starve. You'll be sick of eating the stuff, but if you have no other food, you will survive on it.

As my family likes the baked beans, I've stocked as much of that as I can to go with the rice.  

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com

---

by: cottontop @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 22:36:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Rice and beans store well, and many cultures have developed recipes using them together.

Not brown rice though; it doesn't keep well.  And I recently learned that beans get harder as they get older, so they take longer to cook.  I don't know when the cut-off point is, where they just don't soften- I think it takes years, though.  

Also they can be cooked in a haybox to reduce the fuel used.  Or if you use a solar oven, in the right weather, you don't need fuel at all.  

Diet for a Small Planet is the book I've been going by.  Lappe says that combining different kinds of proteins make a complete protein, like what we get from meat.  But I just found this, that says the idea has been discredited.  ??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...

Rice is good, IMO, because it can be a starchy side dish or cooked with a lot of water to make porridge for a convalescent.

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

---

by: Jane @ Mon May 26, 2008 at 23:12:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

An old bean is still,,,,,,a bean

A neighbor went thru their Y2K supplies and tossed bags after bags of beans, and being the good little scavenger that I am, I acquired them. Not too long after (this was a few months ago), the wife fixed a pot of beans,,,,and they tasted fine. Like it was said just cook alittle longer. I have supplies (beans etc) that I had stored also for Y2K, and the dry climate here near Death Valley, most everything stays intact and does not get moldy.

---

by: Gary Near Death Valley @ Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:58:11 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

beans

cook forever, or try a pinch of baking soda in your old beans. tenderizes them just great.

http://chowhound.chow.com/topi...

and don't add any acids, like tomatoes, until the beans have finished cooking.

yummy yummy

---

by: jeanne @ Mon May 04, 2009 at 22:04:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

There are alternatives to R&B

If all I had to live on was rice and beans I'd have to seriously consider living at all, since I hate both.

Anything that keeps for a long time is suitable. The more dense the calorific value the better. There are lots of things that are more nutritionally rewarding than R&B.

Rice and beans have the advantage that they are cheap and can easily be bought in bulk (assuming there's no restriction).

My grandmother had a large bag of rice at the beginning of WWII and she still had half of it left when rationing was lifted, many years later. Maybe rice hating is genetic ;-)

---

by: UK - Bird @ Tue May 27, 2008 at 06:46:22 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

We should try for a variety of foods,

because sometimes people get sensitized to foods that they eat a lot.  I read under food allergies that there are more people in Japan who are allergic to rice than there are in UK, I think it said, because in Japan they eat it all the time.  YMMV.

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

---

by: Jane @ Tue May 27, 2008 at 16:37:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Rice and Beans as staples

but, unless it is something you are used to eating a lot of I wouldn't try to live on it exclusively if I had any other choice.

Make those two items one of the backbones of your menu, but not to the exclusion of other staples.

Flour and/or cornmeal to make bread - even if it is flatbread

Pastas - that you can add olive oil and some veggies to or some sauces

The right types of incredients and recipes so that you can have both egg and butter substitutes

Dried and/or powdered milk is another staple item

Salt and other basic seasonings

Breakfast foods could include oatmeal and grits (or couscous or polenta if you have another ethnic preference)

Rice and beans are just one of the easiest foods that the average person can keep for long term storage.  They are both - generally - widely available.  And, they are easy to diversify in flavor by simply altering cooking styles and/or seasonings.

I would also give a thought to how long you realistically expect to have to use only your food storage plan.  If you are talking about a 2 week to 2 month scenario then you can probably avoid large quantities of rice and beans if that is really your preference.  Anything longer than 2 months though you really should have a good supply of rice because of its versatility.  Beans are another versatile staple - personally I have more canned beans than dried beans because my personal scenario calls for utility disruptions.  Dried beans require both water and fuel to cook.

We can all offer our opinions and even our personal experiences, but for your own situation you need to sit down and outline your particular expected scenario and your own family's needs so that you can individualize your plan and take the fullest advantage of your own prepping.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

---

by: KathyinFL @ Tue May 27, 2008 at 19:24:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

tomatoe sauce

Cheap, 25 cent a can tomatoe sauce can really zip up the flavor of rice. Soy sauce in one gallon cans. Soy sauce was a treasure on one of the surviver shows. Tabasco can be a good way to hide bad food. Just as any soldier who has eaten bad MREs. All cheap, available and storable. Jon C

---

by: JonC @ Wed May 28, 2008 at 02:21:27 AM UTC

Peanut Butter

In a pinch it can be eaten alone- is high in protein ( and, alas, fats) digests pretty easily, takes no preparation. And unopened it can last at least 2 years. Lately it has been one of those 'loss leaders' in our stores.

---

by: dogsma @ Wed May 28, 2008 at 13:30:53 PM UTC

But, alas, with peanut butter

Comes the issue of those folks who are allergic to peanuts. Some people 'suddenly' develop this allergy later in life, some have always been allergic.
Fortunately, I'm not one, and have discovered that most wonderful of desserts, Peanut Butter pie!!!
I'm guessing it's a Southern thAng, since I never saw it or even heard of it in California (but then again, I lived a pretty sheltered life there!)

---

by: Bronco Bill @ Wed May 28, 2008 at 16:28:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

...

might google peanut butter burgers, then...  :-)

---

by: c3jmp @ Wed May 28, 2008 at 18:42:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Can't say enough about canned meat

if protein is what you're looking for - chicken, turkey, roast beef, tuna, salmon.  All have long shelf lives and pack a lot of protein in a little can.  They can also be eaten as is, saving on fuel for prep.  I've been trying to stockpile more "complete" meals as well - soups, spaghetti in a can, etc. Easy things the kids can do themselves with no prep.  If you are short on time and storage space things like that give you more bang.  

---

by: LauraB @ Wed May 28, 2008 at 20:33:39 PM UTC

and now, canned bacon!

MREdepot.com just got in their first shipment of canned bacon.  Now, I wasn't going to buy any but the DH was like, yeah go ahead, and I was like, REALLY, and he said yup, and I said oh boy, OK, you really mean it and he said go ahead, so click click click and I had canned bacon on it's way to my house.  I wasn't going to question the man's sanity.  Sometimes you gotta strike while the iron is hot and the man is hungry!!    

Not silver or sage, just a blend of colors!

---

by: silversage @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 00:22:27 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

DH is resisting here.

He won't even look at the site.  
http://www.mredepot.com/servle...

What music would go with this when you scroll down?  Burlesque combined with food-- nothing comes to mind now, but there must be a song...  :-D

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

---

by: Jane @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:12:00 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

look to the past survivors

Not trying to be a downer, but in the Jewish grottos they pealed the wall paper to cook the starch out for food. Shoes were boiled. These people were starved to death. Yet many overcame. The human race is a beautiful creature capable of withstanding incredible hardships. We will overcome and there are many good people who WILL save many who are not ready. History shows that the strong, not the ritch will overcome. Respect the older people and talk to them about the great depression and they will give you sound advice. We(I am speaking to those on this site) are the rock, Ready for the waves. Sorry to be so dramatic. I am a writer. A poor speller, yet a writer. We shall overcome. Jon C

---

by: JonC @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:43:47 AM UTC

Fighting all the way

JonC,

  Sad but also an eye opener and good advice. As Lugon has said "we can get by with a lot less"

  Keep the positive mental attitude.

KObie

---

by: Kobie @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 19:48:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

matches are good

I degress. matches are a good last munite buy. Jon c

---

by: JonC @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:46:03 AM UTC

Get info, get food, get maintenace, "get er done"

 If there is only 23h 59Min left then send one person to start downloading:
 Citizens guide
 Flu wiki, ready moms, avian flu talk, et al
 Telephone numbers and bill info
 Will and medical info
 Prescription info. Refill as many prescriptions as possible.
 Maps - as map quest and others may fail.

 Send another to prep vehicals
  Oil change, maintenace, spare tire, spare tire for bikes, deck of cards for games,

 Send another for food and prep items listed here by others.

 Find out what your community and job are doing

 Lastly find out what your family, friends and house of worship are doing and make plans with them.

 GraceRN, the NRA member sticker is a good deterent. Best to never have to use force.

 There is only 23 hours, 56min left so sleep later.

Kobie

---

by: Kobie @ Thu May 29, 2008 at 19:56:05 PM UTC

24 hr to prep

What I would stock would depend on if everybody was trying to stock up or if just my red alarm went off.
If everybody was stocking up, I think I would be out of luck as far as the grocery stores & gas stations.  I would go to the office store and buy 2 cases of paper, some more ink cartridges, boxes of pencils, notebooks & etc.   Then I would go to the department store and buy some socks and a good pair of boots.  I have these but would like back ups.

I feel good on what I have stocked but if my red alarm went off:  I would maximize every min.  
Walmart here is open 24 hr and I half expect one night I will read a report and those red bells will start going off.  I would take a quick inventory and then I plan to drag DP to the Walmart, take the truck and the car and load up. come back home unload check the news and maybe head out again.  Top off gas tanks, milk, eggs, flour, oil, beer & cookies would be top of the list. this would all be gravey on what I have stocked now.  

---

by: NC Seeking @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 02:14:36 AM UTC

lets go through this scenario a bit more.

Why would we get such a question, in the event?

I mean, most of us have been incessantly reminding our friends, family and co-workers to prepare.  Most of those people refused to even consider the possibility or the need to prepare.

What, exactly, would cause such people to make such a momentous change in their thinking?  Do you think that if you called them up and said, "look, I have been monitoring the Internet FluWiki site I told you about before and I think the $#1t has well and truly hit the fan.  You've got about a day before the news hits the mainstream media- get what you can while you still can!" that they would listen any better than they have so far?  I don't!  I think that they would consider that you really have gone over the edge.

On the flip side, do you think that the people who have already told you that you are crazy for preparing for such an event are going to spend any time monitoring the Wiki?  I don't!  And if they did actually take you advice and come here, there are GOBS of lists from which to choose.

Those who refuse to think about such things won't change their minds until there are thousands of people dying here in the US, at which point the stores will already be stripped bare.  So who, exactly, is this 24 hour list going to help?  It's possible that there are some fence sitters, but my experience has been that either people take this seriously, or they don't.  There aren't many in the middle.

I have already told my circle of acquaintance that I do not expect there to be any warning and they need to prepare accordingly.  Many have, some have not.  I have also told those that have not that I am NOT their supply depot and not to come to 'visit' unless they have been invited.  They know where they stand.

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but the likelihood that such a list will be of use to the general population is pretty low. More to the point, it fosters the idea that people can wait till the last minute then prep.  I think that misconception is a lethal lie, and must be combatted at every opportunity.  Anyone who has actually gone through the process of figuring out what you need for a month, and stockpiling it, KNOWS what an enormous undertaking that is.  You cannot accumulate a meaningful amount of supplies in 24 hours, especially when everyone else in the country is trying to do the same thing at the same time.

YOU NEED TO PREP AHEAD OF TIME!

KEEP THE GRID UP!
Prudent People Prepare Properly

"better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!"

---

by: LMWatBullRun @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 13:33:19 PM UTC

OTOH, LMWatBullRun

I have friends whom I deeply care about, who all say "When it happens, let me know". I've promised that I would. At that point, I will let them know that they only have about 24-48 hours to get their s**t together, and they've promised to listen to me.
Are they preppers now? No. Are they stockpiling anything for the future? Not really...most of them live on the West Coast, and are prepped (3 days' worth) for earthquakes, but nothing else.
I've told them already, and explained whole-heartedly, that once I've warned them that TSHHTF, they are on their own. I'm too far away to physically help them, and they are very well aware of the consequences of having nothing in their pantries...
I've provided them lists of the things that they'll want to concentrate on, things that will most likely disappear first from the stores, and how to take care of themselves in the event a pandemic is wholly lethal.
Now it's up to them, but they do have the knowledge now.

Will all this work of mine be enough? Not hardly, but at least, in my mind, I've done what I could to help them out.

---

by: Bronco Bill @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:10:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm in the same boat

I've got relatives who accept that if H5N1 does get it's act together it'll be a nightmare. They have promised me they will act immediately when I raise the alarm. It might not be enough but it's better than nothing.

---

by: UK - Bird @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 14:26:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

how will you know?

with all the news blackouts and misinformation how will you truly know IT has started?

I have lost faith in that and it will be too late for anyone who has not done their homework to properly prepare.

When they who have not prepped find their stomachs empty, expect a knock on your door no matter what you told them.

Just MHO

Tell the truth

---

by: Goju @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 16:10:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'll only know 'cuz I have sort of an "in"...

...with my local DoH.

I do believe that the news and MSM will pick up on anything that shows up on the radar and want to be the first to say "We told you so..." even if they didn't!!
OTOH---they may want to wait to make certain that they don't make a huge mistake and announce a pandemic without actually seeing one!!  It's all about ratings...

---

by: Bronco Bill @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 16:20:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Eventually it will be a guess

But an educated guess. The misinformation and news blackouts are clues in themselves.

I will be swayed as much by non related flu news as by actual reports of infections. And let's face it, I don't turn up here because I like the wall paper ;-) I take all rumours seriously even if I don't get worried by them.

And my contacts turn up? Well we can cope with that. Their presence is actually more valuable than their supplies.

---

by: UK - Bird @ Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 16:40:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I have had some friends try that 'let me know at the last minute' crap on me, too.

And what I tell them is-
"Look, I am NOT psychic.  I do NOT know when this thing,
if it ever does start, will start.  There is no way I can be sure of seeing the start of a pandemic;  there is just too much 'noise' and too much ignorance.  My best judgment is that we will probably have no warning whatever.  The first we'll likely know about it is when a bunch of really sick people turn up at the hospital. We'll only be sure when thousands are dying or dead.

"The reality is, friend, that if this virus (h5n1) goes pandemic at anything even remotely close to it's present CFR, and you are not prepped for it, you will surely die.  Worse, so will your kids.  Horribly.  ( sometimes I describe death by cytokine storm.  Graphically.)  There won't be any way to prepare while millions of people are going to the stores; it'll be a thousand times worse than all the hurricanes and snowstorms ever seen rolled into one, ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.  If you wait, you are screwed.  The worst part is that you will watch your children die knowing you have been warned about this by someone in a position to know, and knowing you ignored my warning.  And there won't be a damned thing you can do about it.  There won't be a damned thing anyone else will do, either.  If you are lucky they may note which trench they dumped your body into.  

So if you think for one INSTANT that I am going to play a patsy for your refusal to make a few simple basic preparations, FORGET ABOUT IT!  The welfare of your family and your self is YOUR BUSINESS!  Don't fob that off on me, cause I am NOT having it!  Be a man and take some responsibility for your self and your kids!  If you think a flu pandemic might happen, prepare for that.  If you think it won't, then DON'T.  But don't ask me to let you hedge your bet because I am NOT playing that game.  S#1T OR GET OFF THE POT!  There aren't any 'do-overs' on this- you WILL abide by your choices."

Then I have heard the snivel- "Oh, LMW, you wouldn't let my kids die just because I was stupid, would you?"  To which I have replied, "Aren't you a whole lot better off making sure you never find out the answer to that question?"

KEEP THE GRID UP!
Prudent People Prepare Properly

"better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!"

---

by: LMWatBullRun @ Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:42:25 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I didn't say it was a wide circle

and those who are within it are important to me. There's also the element of strength in numbers.

---

by: UK - Bird @ Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:37:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

My friends are very important to me too,

and that's one reason I won't help them to live a lie.

The lie they want me to help them live is the one that says that they'll have time to get ready once the pandemic starts.  That is a lie I will not help them tell themselves, and I do call it a lie.  

That's why I REFUSE to 'go along' with this business of 24 hour prepping and why I get right up in their faces about it.

I do not think I would be a good friend if I let them sail along, fat, dumb and happy thinking that good ol' LMW will tell them when they need to go out and do their prep shopping. (We only need 3 days worth, you know!)

Prepping for a pandemic cannot be done in 24 hours.  Period.

People who wait that long will probably die if the pandemic is severe. Period.

I do not want their deaths on my conscience, especially if they decide that in the event they will try to extort food or shelter from me, as I expect will happen with a couple of them.  I want to be sure I did all that I could do to help them, before I do what must be done in the pandemic to honor my oaths to my closer friends and my wife and family.
If I have done all that I could do, then I will be able to look myself in the mirror after I have done what I must.

KEEP THE GRID UP!
Prudent People Prepare Properly

"better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!"

---

by: LMWatBullRun @ Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 21:42:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

My preps

Well, since I'm a member here, of course this won't be a worry for me, should IT happen, but I'll list what I'd probably buy, assuming I'd be panicking, and have no list prepared:

Vinegar & baking soda (cleaning, disinfecting, health and hygiene--many, many uses)

AT THE GROCERY STORE:

Water, TONS of it.

Cat food and litter.

Powdered milk

Canned meals/vegetables/fruit

Canned meat (chunk ham, chicken, etc.)

Pre-made desserts/candy

Cheese

Rice/flour/cornstarch (cornstarch is also used in lieu of talcum powder in my house)

Baking powder & salt

Sugar/powdered sugar

Sugar-free drinks/powdered mixes, both sugar-free & regular

Tea/coffee/powdered creamer/margarine/butter/bacon

Cans of biscuits (I call 'em "Whomp biscuits")

Bisquick

Eggs, regular & powdered

Honey

Tissues/cold/flu meds; vaporizer scented oil

Epsom salts/first aid items or kit/aspirin/Tylenol/Pepto-Bismol

Toilet paper (LOTS!)
Baby items, if needed (diapers, ointment, food, formula, bottles)
Paper plates, cups, napkins, plastic cutlery (LOTS)

HARDWARE STORE:

Nail/screws in common sizes
Hammer/screwdriver
Rope/twine
Tarps
Oil for car
Anti-freeze and wiper fluid
Kerosene heater (buy kerosene at gas station, + gas for car/in can) & extra wicks

Matches/lighters
Fire logs/starters
Duct tape & masking tape
Plastic sheeting
Pen knife/Swiss Army knife
Veggie seeds

DISCOUNT DEPARTMENT STORE (Note: many of the supplies are available there, too--however, one may not be able to get there, etc., so I listed things under separate stores):

Blankets/sleeping bags/bedsheets/extra, practical clothing, such as sweatpants/shirts/socks & undies
Sturdy shoes, if I don't already own--not a priority, though
Baby items, if I had kids (diapers, ointments, sleepers, blankets, bibs, bottles, formula, baby food)
Extra water bowls for my cats
Games/toys/books (if you have time & money)

Send DH out for more ammo & gun supplies, and to fill his car with gas, + gas can.  Also, maybe have him duplicate the above lists as much as time allows, so we can fill 2 cars with supplies, and also save time in line.

---

by: WhiteSwan @ Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:00:11 AM UTC

Additions and a Printable List

(Reposted by Bronco Bill for WhiteSwan due to sidescroll issues)

Of course, in my "panic", I realized this morning that I forgot some basic items I'd like to have, such as trash bags, Baththerapy (for colds and flu), cider vinegar, Gatorade (although you can my oral rehydration solution from baking soda, salt and water, I think), feminine products, contraception, prescriptions (though we're not using any prescriptions in my house right now). Stamps, too.
Even though we here are master preppers, I still think at least some of us, when the call is raised, will feel the need to go out, and top up our preps. Also, let's say you were at work when the alarm came--you have to drive home anyway; I know I'd be tempted to stop in one of the many stores on my way home, "just in case".  Or, perhaps you let your preps lapse a bit--job loss, illness, major life-changing event, or even a flood that damaged your preps. Of course, the preferred thing is to always have the correct preps 24/7, but the reality may be different. Therefore, may I suggest that you could copy and paste into Word, the following bare-bones, "OMG, it's REALLY here!" list, that you could perhaps laminate, and keep in your purse/wallet/car, just in case?  I've organized it by store/action.  I'm sure others here will have suggestions for it; I'm doing this off the (very tired, and not yet had breakfast) head!  i didn't add actual items; you can personalize it for your own needs; just add or delete lines as needed.  

The first part, PLAN, is for you to flesh out a very basic plan of action, so you and your family can spring into action.  Put cell phone # here, who goes to what store, and is responsible for what, etc.; or to remind you to pick up kids from school, babysitter, etc., or other famiy members who you want to SIP with you. (Or even friends/neighbors you feel responsible for.) You may want to laminate a copy of phone numbers on the back of this list. (I always keep a laminated list, updated regularly, of important #s in my purse. The one time I needed it in an emergency, I had left it at home!)

PLAN: _____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

#OF CARS IN FAMILY & WHO CAN DRIVE_____________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

                GROCERY STORE
_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

                HARDWARE STORE
_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

                 DEPT. STORE (KMART/WALMART, ETC.)
_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

                   DRUG STORE
_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

                      BANK
_____________________________________________________

                    GAS STATION
_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

                   POST OFFICE
_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_____________________________________________________

_________________________________________________________

-----------------------------------------

by: WhiteSwan @ Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:37:52 AM EDT  

---

by: Bronco Bill @ Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 15:10:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Knapsacks are useful; I wouldn't be without one or two, with or w/o frames.

Also fanny packs.  (Probably everyone already has them, but just in case)  They can even be used to carry your purchases into the house.  

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

---

by: Jane @ Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:44:06 AM UTC

Working on sidescroll issue...

I'm aware and working to rectify the situation...

---

by: Bronco Bill @ Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 14:21:42 PM UTC

Sidescroll fixed n/t

---

by: Bronco Bill @ Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 15:12:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks, Bronco Bill! Thought I messed up something! n/t

---

by: WhiteSwan @ Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 16:41:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Nah...it's all good! ;-) n/t

---

by: Bronco Bill @ Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 17:10:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

24hrs?

I don't think we'll have any 24 hour or such warning, especially with the precedence being set by Indonesia to stop reporting cases...

Heck folks... from Barry's  "The Great Influenza"...

Its just the flu.

Tell the truth

---

by: Goju @ Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 22:10:44 PM UTC

Mayo

Mayo doesn't have that long of a shelf life so I've been freezing egg yolks so that I can make my own.  It takes 1 yolk, 1 cup of light olive oil or any other kind of good oil, lemon juice (3t) or vinegar and a pinch of salt plus a little water. This will make 1 cup.  So I figure one of the last things I'll grab is a big jar of Olive oil.

---

by: aznugget @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 19:21:19 PM UTC

Freezer?

You sound like you're either counting on the grid staying up, or you have a generator.  We don't have a generator, and I'm afraid to rely on anything that needs to be kept cold.

I've been stocking olive oil all along, in glass bottles that I keep in a cool, dark place.  So far, I've not had any go bad.  

---

by: Clawdia @ Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 21:01:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

mayo made with dried eggs

snip...Here's a recipe using dried eggs so you get an idea of it's use. This recipe uses vinegar, but lemon juice would probably work just as well. -Grainlady

Cooked Salad Dressing
(source: Cookin' with Dried Eggs - by Peggy Layton)

3 T. sugar
1 t. salt
2 T. flour
1-1/2 t. dry mustard
2/3 c. water
1/3 c. vinegar
2 t. oil
1/4 c. dry whole egg
1/4 c. water

Combine the sugar, salt, flour, and mustard in a heavy saucepan. Add the 2/3 c. water and stir until smooth. Gradually stir in the vinegar and add oil. Cook over low heat, stirring constantly, until the mixture thickens, about 3 minutes. Remove from heat and cool for 5 minutes. Sprinkle the egg over the 1/4 c. water, stir to moisten, and beat until smooth. Gradually add the cooled mixture to the egg, stirring to blend. Cook until thickened, about 2 minutes, stirring constantly. Cool and use. Makes 1-1/4 c....

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forum...

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

---

by: Jane @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 02:52:42 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

salt

I bought a 20 lb bag of salt for less than 4 bucks at Sam's Club. As most of you know, salt has many uses. Jon C

---

by: JonC @ Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 04:07:12 AM UTC

salt?

Jon C-

You have no way to know this, but I became somewhat infamous on old Yeller because of my thread on Salt.  I think it was Wiki-fied, at least part of it.

I agree with you that salt is important, and if there is a severe or worse pandemic, lots of folks will be wishing that they had bought more when it was relatively cheap.  I have hundreds of pounds of salt and I am thinking of buying some more.


KEEP THE GRID UP!
Prudent People Prepare Properly

"better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!"

---

by: LMWatBullRun @ Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:33:29 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Salt

Apart from many other uses, not all culinary, it's even good for thawing out frozen washing machine lines; pour about 1/2 of one of the average-sized cannisters plus at least 1 cup of boiling water down the pipes.  My Mom used to do this.  Also, I've unclogged drains with a mixture of bakikg soda, salt, then vinegar, and THEN boiling water down the drain.  You may have to repeat once or twice, but it works.

---

by: WhiteSwan @ Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 11:18:34 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Do you wait to pour the boiling water,

or pour it in immediately?  

Baking soda, then vinegar gets pretty exciting, in a soda bottle with a balloon over the neck.  I'm glad to know it doesn't explode the pipe.

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

---

by: Jane @ Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 23:01:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Can we revive this, please?

I've had a request for similar suggestions. What to tell families, AFTER panflu event has started. The above suggestions, are great.

I'd like to push this a little further.

Scenario: Stores don't have a lot. You are hearing about this for the first time or just plain old didn't listen up when you were told, before hand. You have lots of 'stuff' lying around the house. How do you use some of that 'stuff' to get you through.

I'm thinking along the lines of creative home uses for cooking, heat, starting fires, sanitation. If people look around the house, what might they find that they can use.

Figure these folks won't know they can use that item in this creative fashion, unless we tell them. What would you suggest? -k

www.EmergencyHomePreparation.org -- A 'card-catalog' style of prepping information.   -

---

by: Readymom @ Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 21:54:31 PM UTC

....around the house.

Have to repeat my favorite...phone book. Uses - toilet paper, paper towels, fire starter.

Pit cooking in yard.  Dig a hole, fill with wood or charcoal, start with phone book pages and after the coals are going cook aluminum foil wrapped food or hopefully you have a few pieces of cast iron around.

---

by: aznugget @ Fri Dec 12, 2008 at 02:12:26 AM UTC

Thank you,aznugget

That's the type of 'have around the house already' helpful hints I need.

I have a presentation in Jan '09 for a health-care facility that understands that there are going to be folks coming in with ill loved ones that have homes that are not prepared. They want to have information to send home with them, giving them ideas of what they can do AFTER panflu hits in what I have dubbed 'home survival'.

RMA is working on a 'tool' to give this facility, that hopefully will be useful to anyone in need of that info. We all know that there are going to be a LOT of folks looking for help after the fact. Who better than our flu communities to have that helpful information.

I would appreciate any and all (read: much help needed) on this project .... Puuullleeeessse! :)  -k

www.EmergencyHomePreparation.org -- A 'card-catalog' style of prepping information.   -

---

by: Readymom @ Fri Dec 12, 2008 at 02:44:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Help?

RM,

I am not unsympathetic to what you are attempting, but it is a waste of your time.  By the time we know that a pandemic is in full swing, the stores will be stripped, the hospitals will be overrun with sick and dying people, and anyone who did not prepare ahead of time is screwed.

There simply isn't any way to sugarcoat this, and I'm not going to try.  If you wait till it's headline news on channel 5, you have no hope of doing anything meaningful.

My advise is- DON'T WAIT!

KEEP THE GRID UP!
Prudent People Prepare Properly

"better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!"

---

by: LMWatBullRun @ Mon Dec 15, 2008 at 03:14:00 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

"Don't wait!" is the right advice for those who know about the threat.

It's so unusual to hear someone who wants to be able to help later that IMO it's worth trying to come up with some suggestions, meager as they might be.  There will be many people needing help later, for one thing, and, for another, the details of "making do with only what you have in your house" should be shocking to those hearing it and might push some people to move faster on preparing.  

Asking the question and seeing how tough life will be without doing the work early, starts the  imagination working.  

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

---

by: Jane @ Mon Dec 15, 2008 at 04:04:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I beg to differ, LMW-

People will have things in their households that they can use creatively to help them. Granted stores will be barren and if they don't have enough food, they are in trouble.

IF there are some with decent food stocks, they obviously will have a better chance. There will still be a need for lighting, cooking sanitation,etc.

Preppers are the kings and queens of creativity! Might as well put some of that creativity to work! If this information can help anyone, it is worth the trouble to pull it together. One person at a time is better than NONE. I'm just not willing to throw in the towel. -k

www.EmergencyHomePreparation.org -- A 'card-catalog' style of prepping information.   -

---

by: Readymom @ Mon Dec 15, 2008 at 04:45:50 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Observations from the NH Ice Storm

Quickly catching up and maybe this doesn't even belong in this thread but....

No power starting Friday around 12:30 am. Finally went to the grocery store on Sunday morning when they opened - they had been closed for a while, although I heard they were open and taking cash (can't confirm), so....went in yesterday morning and no meat, no fruit, no vegetables, sheles were starting to look bare.

Interesting to say the least. Now all that fresh stuff could have gone bad or there could have been a run.  Don't know....

something to think about

got two cantalopes, lunch meat, milk and bread for the week and will live off of our preps with teh limited use of our generator.

Decided I am not really a "survivor woman" LOL

---

by: Katie Bird @ Mon Dec 15, 2008 at 18:19:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

New Question

how do you boil water for a cup of tea?  We have a fireplace and a generator for heat and well pump. I just didn't have a clue as to how to heat water for a cup of tea.  Sure I could somehow boil a pot of water in the fireplace but all I needed was a quick cup of tea.

All suggestions are welcome :)

---

by: Katie Bird @ Mon Dec 15, 2008 at 18:22:10 PM UTC

Unhelpful help for tea

Katie Bird: If you have a generator, you might use (if you can get one) an immersion coil. It only uses a few hundred watts and you put it in the cup of water first and then plug it in. It works fast but unplug it before removing or it will melt. If you don't have one, plug in a small microwave and use it. If you can get a wood stove, keep a kettle on. If not, put a covered pot near the coals. Gas grilles (as in barbecue grills) might also be handy? Least helpful is if you have a sunny day and a black mug and a big magnifying glass. Sorry, not to have better ideas. I drove thru New Hampshire and Central Mass. last weekend and it was a real mess. Good luck.  

---

by: INFOMASS @ Mon Dec 15, 2008 at 19:57:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Cup of Tea!

KB, did you try just boiling a small amount of water over a candle in a safe container?

Do you have any charcoal? Can you put a small number of charocoal brikettes in a can and use that?

Do you have any 'buddy burners' made? (Small tuna/pet food can-coiled cardboard-melted wax). They give off a LARGE amt. of heat.


www.EmergencyHomePreparation.org -- A 'card-catalog' style of prepping information.   -

---

by: Readymom @ Mon Dec 15, 2008 at 23:30:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Don't forget: NO charcoal burning in the house, even in a fireplace.

If you have a fire in the fireplace, then the draft will be open, and there should be enough heat to make the carbon monoxide fumes go up the chimney.  A few pieces of charcoal won't make the draft strong enough to be safe, if there's no wood fire.

I put my tri-ox stove on the concrete front stoop outside during a power outage.  (I think I used it inside once though.  Does anyone know if that was dangerous?  [wince] )  

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

---

by: Jane @ Mon Dec 15, 2008 at 23:42:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I've used tri-ox. or hex... in a folding stove.

6. Hexane & Trioxain Tablets, & misc. other commercial fire starters.
These are all functional, and some are better than others. Compact collapsible "stoves" are available for use with the Hex and Triox Tablets. Unless you have a good supply of these don't try to cook with them, use them to start a "real" fire. The stoves that are available for these are little more than fixtures to keep the cup or pan off the tablet. One tablet will boil a cup of water, but won't heat a meal. Here's a better idea: With a stick or knife gouge or cut a trench about an inch wide and about two inches longer than the diameter of the base of your cup or pan. This will be a miniature fire pit. Light a tablet and place it in the center of the trench. Place the item to be heated on top of the trench. By adjusting the size of the trench and moving the cup or pan, you control the draft and thus the burn rate of the tablet. The main problem with the stoves provided for the tablets is that the tablet burns out of control and typically flames shoot up well past the rim of the container being heated. This is a waste of the little amount of fuel that you have. A tablet in a fire pit can burn two to three times longer than one on a "stove", and can heat about twice as much water or food. In a pinch I have snuffed out a tablet in the trench and placed it in a plastic bag for use a second time!

http://theepicenter.com/tow103...

I think it's the tri-ox. that was Army surplus, and it worked well to boil water for instant coffee.  One tablet, one cup, IIRC.  I didn't try for 2 cups, though; it might have done it if I had used more water for one boil.  

I bought the other kind, Esbit, and the tablets and had to wrap them in foil because they stunk.  They are in the packaging, too; probably I should test them because if they're leaking a smell, they may have exhausted their flammability.  (Just thought of that; thanks!)

Would Sterno work?  Or Eco-fuel?  Or candles (tealights or the Survival candle that can take 3 wicks to boost the heat)?

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

---

by: Jane @ Mon Dec 15, 2008 at 20:25:50 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I have one of these

http://doitbest.com/Camp+stove...
It boils water in no time flat and makes a one pound canister of propane last a long time.

Life is not so short but that there is always time enough for courtesy. Ralph Waldo Emerson

---

by: mojo @ Mon Dec 15, 2008 at 21:20:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

An idea...

off the top of my head.

Take a piece of a broken cast iron skillet (or other cast iron cooking vessel), place it in the coals in your fireplace.  When it is nice and hot, fish it out with your ash shovel.  Use an oven mitt to brush the ash off.  Then gingerly place it in your tea cup.  Let it steep a while then drink.

You should be able to find some old cast iron cooking implements at a antique store.  Just make sure that it is cast iron meant for cooking.  I'm not sure, but potentially there could be contaminants in other types of metals.  Cooking cast iron should be fine for this purpose.

I know this might not help you right now, unless you have some old cast iron sitting around your house.  But it should be a solution for heating very small amounts of liquid, such as a tea cup.

---

by: Okieman @ Mon Dec 15, 2008 at 21:30:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Or, building on your idea, putting a cast iron pot (with 2" of water in it) in the coals

and the teacup (fireproof, Pyrex or something, even a metal pot) full of water in the cast iron pot, like a double boiler.  The cup of water would get hot, sooner or later.  Perhaps it should be covered to speed it up.

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

---

by: Jane @ Mon Dec 15, 2008 at 22:27:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Why would you think you have more than 24 hours - FROM NOW?

This thread seems to be based on the idea that we, THE AWARE, will somehow have an advanced warning, BEFORE THE REST OF THE POPULATION, that a pandemic had commenced, or was about to.

Well, in a way we do, and Fluwiki is it.  The fact that TPTB haven't taken it down, and that what has become "routine" news continues to appear, may be regarded as something of a dead man switch.  When that changes, it will be only a short and indefinite time before the news is out, and the great panic begins.  So, it only makes sense, from a survival standpoint, to look at it from the viewpoint of "Fluwiki is still permitted, there is no newly ominous news, I still probably have 24 hours."  

When that changes, you will be faced with, "Fluwiki has been suppressed, the media are full of flu stories, the stores are mobbed and rioting will begin soon, I have thrown away my 24 hours and I and my family will die because of my inaction."

You have had your 24 hours to prepare.  We have been lucky, and you have many of them, going back to when you first learned of the hazard of an H5N1 pandemic.  As I write this, it seems that you probably will have another 24 hours.  Beyond that, no one knows.

---

by: SIPCT @ Tue Dec 23, 2008 at 19:29:46 PM UTC

The world doesn't work like that

Unless you get a pandemic that spreads faster than a jet and infects nearly all it touches you will have time to do more than the uninformed, simply because you will react the moment you reach your personal alarm point. Pandemics don't pop out of thin air, they grow. Think of all the warning people get for a hurricane and it's still a last minute rush.

Whether it will be safe to go to the shops is another matter.

In any 100 people there are probably only a few who have even thought about what a pandemic would mean. It remains in the land of fiction for the majority. Why would they rush off to the shops when news about a pandemic begins to solidify? By the time they do think about getting a few weeks of food in, you could be shopping for the more obscure prep items.

A pandemic by definition is a lot of infected people. We won't wait for that kind of magnitude.

If the pandemic is a common or garden variety (low CFR, ha, ha) we may be caught napping because there won't be much warning that numbers are escalating. The UK may be seeing the start of something like that now. But, if there isn't a big death rate to panic the public, there won't be a problem getting supplies.

---

by: UK - Bird @ Tue Dec 23, 2008 at 21:00:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The problem with that 24 hours . . .

I'm afraid at this point I believe the problem with having or not having 24 hours is all a matter of time being of the essence . . .

I have always been aware that the pandemic may have started yesterday, or the day before.

None of us is likely to know when a 24 hour countdown should begin - or has begun.

As I've said before, ignorance is not bliss, it is death.

---

by: Clawdia @ Tue Dec 23, 2008 at 21:46:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It depends whether you mean 24hrs to shop or 24hrs safe from flu

We will have more that 24hrs for the former and maybe minus a week for the latter. We can't know if we are already infected but once we know we are at risk we can still prep and be fairly safe.

---

by: UK - Bird @ Tue Dec 23, 2008 at 22:26:25 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Figure One Week

When I start seeing clusters truly reported on the Fluwiki and other sites I believe we will have one week.  I have a list ready to go and I will purchase everything on that list within 4 days.  

I have dry storage for about 6 months and the items I purchase will help me go for 12 months.  

There is no way you can prep in 24 hours for 1 or more months with out having already stored basics, flour, beans, rice, pasta.  Most people will not even realize how much food they really need.  People will believe they have 1 month of food and it will last only 2 weeks.

I have several ways to store and purify water.  The person not aware of prepping will be in big trouble if clean drinking water is shut down.  

Remember:  YOU CAN LIVE...3 weeks without food, 3 days without water, 3 minutes without oxygen.

And let us remember that if people have to go out and purchase food or water and they do not have N95 masks they will be a very large risk.  

I just pray the death rate is much lower when it goes H2H.

Just a funny note when a Hurricane is forcast most people buy pop tarts, soda, water and tang.  LOL I would hate to survive on that!  

---

by: FluMom @ Wed Dec 24, 2008 at 07:14:00 AM UTC

While I'd agree with your priority list in terms of basic need

I'd disagree with it in terms of prepping order.

While a mask would be number 1 priority I wouldn't put water at number 2. Tap water is likely to be maintained for several weeks at least and few will think of storage containers for at least a few days. Also, unless you live in a very dry area or the city, there are ways of collecting enough pure water to drink if you get creative. Long life food will be the first thing to vanish from the shelves so if I only had 24hrs before the crowd, I'd concentrate on that.

You won't be able to get an interesting diet or even a balanced one but you could collect enough to fuel the body for quite some time. I'd add vitamin tablets as a crude addition.

Oil, flour, rice, sugar, chocolate + candy, tinned meat, pasta, pulses, etc. Next, go for variety and balance. If you skip round the supermarket looking for a bit of this, a bit of that, you'll waste time.

If you've got more than one car in the family, take them all. If you don't need to take the kids, don't. Fill each car to the brim before setting off home. Get gas while you're out.

Medecines need a special plan of their own and each family needs to work out how much time they have to spend  fulfilling that need.

Once the shopping stops, the rationing begins.

---

by: UK - Bird @ Wed Dec 24, 2008 at 09:13:48 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

My last minute list

Since we're stocked with pretty near everything in a can that can be canned, my last minute runs would be to hit the produce counter and the dairy counter . . . lots of fresh fruit and long term winter veggies like rutabeggas, and all the potatoes I thought we could use before they weren't useable.  At least a dozen pounds of butter and cheese . . .
I'd add a couple of bottles of fresh Clorox since it loses potency over time.

Even as well stocked as we are, I figure it would take the three of us at least one full day to finish getting the last minute items, like the above, and getting every script we could lay hands on refilled.  

If we absolutely knew that the worst we had feared was beginning to happen, I think we have to realize there'd be some time wasted in deer-in-the-headlights moments . . . and we'd have to be sure and get bunches of chocolate and other candy.

I can't imagine what it would be like if we weren't already well stocked and I had to start from scratch.  I'd be starting from a point where we could actually manage if we couldn't make any last minute trips.  It'd be hard enough as it is . . .

---

by: Clawdia @ Wed Dec 24, 2008 at 18:16:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The potatoes

left over might make seed potatoes. I'd plant any I could find that were inedible and hope the come up. Nothing lost. When I ran out of land I'd start planting them in the grass verges. I worked out that spuds are the best veg to grow for payback.

Seeds for other veg would be one of my last preps. I'd also buy up wood and hardware when the hoards hit the food shops. Dry wood can be used in a variety of ways.

Until more people get wise to the potential of a pandemic there will be time to buy a lot of things I currently don't have the spare money or space for.

---

by: UK - Bird @ Wed Dec 24, 2008 at 18:38:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

bump

bump from anxiety level.

---

by: SIPCT @ Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 14:28:11 PM UTC

Good idea!

Can we keep this in the front of the wiki, for a while? -k

www.EmergencyHomePreparation.org -- A 'card-catalog' style of prepping information.   -

---

by: Readymom @ Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 16:18:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

great for newbies!

---

by: LauraB @ Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 18:48:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

RE: swine flu

Well I did go to walmart today to stock up on some stuff.  This whole thing is making me a bit uneasy.  I will spend this evening going through all my supplies from a few years ago: especially paper goods to see what I need.   I'll be buying more canned goods tomorrow.  ( I can always donate them to the food pantry if this thing blows over), but it sounds more serious than I ever seen in the three years that I have been on Fluwiki. I still have my last minute list taped to the refrigerator. I'm trying to decide if it's time to alert friends and  family who think I crazy.

---

by: Ruth @ Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 20:10:58 PM UTC

Alert family and friends -

Did that today!

Walmart: did that today, as well. Small purchase. Paramalt milk (shelf stable in the box). Bought ALL that they had in the Whole milk type. Bought 6 more pounds of coffee.

I'll watch what is happening over the next several days and shope more if I see the need or my anxiety can't tolerate any more.

Back on topic ... 24 hours to prepare

www.EmergencyHomePreparation.org -- A 'card-catalog' style of prepping information.   -

---

by: Readymom @ Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 23:39:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Alerted family too!

I too sent out emails to everyone I really like!  Just to remind them I'm still watching and that we were topping off preps today.  Mom was at the hospital all day with a friend and hadn't seen the news.  Sisters work all day and now that's it's finally on MSM they hadn't seen it either.  I always let them know not to worry about us cause we're covered.  That always makes them stop and think.

Propane: check
Gasoline: check
Chocolate: check

It's all good here!

Not silver or sage, just a blend of colors!

---

by: silversage @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 02:38:13 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Alerted Family and Friends

I forwarded the fluwikie alert to all my family and friends and also posted on my facebook.

---

by: tjclaw1 @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 02:50:42 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Check "FluWiki On Facebook"

and comment there as well

---

by: Bronco Bill @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 03:17:49 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks, BB

Thank you for sending out the alert last night. I'd been watching the situation and kinda expecting you'd send out the alert at some point. It gave me a way to alert my family and friends without making myself sound "alarmist." Thanks for all your hard work. It is greatly appreciated.

---

by: tjclaw1 @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 13:47:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

For Newbies in need of Pandemic Preparation help-

For those new and wondering where to Start-

www.GetPandemicReady.org  will be a good place to go. Thought it might be a good idea to mention that.

A website by the members of the flubie community.

www.EmergencyHomePreparation.org -- A 'card-catalog' style of prepping information.   -

---

by: Readymom @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 03:02:02 AM UTC

Seeds

Thank God, that this didn't hit at the beginning of Winter, at least in the Northern Hemisphere.

To calm the wife buy cases of chocolate, to calm the husband buy cases of booze, and to calm the children...... heck the booze and chocolate should work.

---

by: Oremus @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 13:37:08 PM UTC

I was thinking the same thing

Less heating issues too.

---

by: UK - Bird @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 13:39:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Last Things

I'm going to confession/reconciliation shortly.  Make sure will is in order.

To calm the wife buy cases of chocolate, to calm the husband buy cases of booze, and to calm the children...... heck the booze and chocolate should work.

---

by: Oremus @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 19:27:15 PM UTC

Last Chance to Shop!!!

I do not think we need to lock the doors this time.  

This flu is not H5N1.  Yes we want to keep away from sick people, but I do not think that the water and electrical power will stop or that the stores will be closed in a week.

I was outside today and all my neighbors were out doing their lawns or washing their cars.  If it was that bad then all would be at the store like when a hurricane is coming.

I will go to the store for Propane and batteries  never have enough of either.

Good luck to all  RICHARD-FL

  No warning - no way to fight - no way to win!  
We need help in our local communities to survive. Remember that quote:    "...No man is an island..."

---

by: RICHARD-FL @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 20:31:12 PM UTC

Last chance?

Maybe . . . maybe not.

I'm not putting any bets on being able to buy a week from now what I can buy today.

We did Propane yesterday, and I ordered more batteries.

Just put in an order at Emergency Essentials, too.

Anybody know if there's a current coupon good at mredepot?

Whether this is a "door-locker" remains to be seen.

So far, I don't like what I'm seeing.

---

by: Clawdia @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 21:59:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

From what I remember...

fluwikie is still valid at mredepot.

---

by: Bronco Bill @ Sun Apr 26, 2009 at 03:10:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

It is valid

I used it this afternoon, and it worked then.

---

by: Clawdia @ Sun Apr 26, 2009 at 03:36:07 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

So far, I don't like what I'm seeing.

ditto

It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.

---

by: Grace RN @ Sun Apr 26, 2009 at 03:48:00 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Add another "ditto" for me

They should have raised the alert level.

If not now - then when?

Just what will it take, besides those bodies piling up in the streets and the man with the bell chanting, "Bring out your dead" . . .

---

by: Clawdia @ Sun Apr 26, 2009 at 04:17:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

when?

When?-when Americans get sick, start dying in significant numbers, can't get medications, can't get in their doctors' office, can't get seen in ER's and when the same things happen to their kids.

The uproar will travel to Geneva.

It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.

---

by: Grace RN @ Sun Apr 26, 2009 at 17:44:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

When!

Agreed . . . but will the lines of communication still be open at that late date?  Will the people in Geneva still be sitting behind their desks, passing out platitudes until there's a body outside their door?

I'm so tired of stupid . . . and I feel like by the end of this week I'll be so tired of stupid that I may be spending my time either screaming or beating my head against a brick wall, which I already feel as though I'm doing . . .  

---

by: Clawdia @ Sun Apr 26, 2009 at 18:27:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

This is scary, but I don't feel as scared as if it were H5N1

I agree.  I have a feeling that utilities won't go down as a general rule unless something changes.  But there is uncertainty in the CFR in the U.S.  Mexico's CFR seems to be pretty scary, but I suspect there are lots more sick than reported.  Assuming the number sick and deaths are accurate we are looking at a 6% CFR there, but I feel it's likely much lower.  So I am hoping utility workers won't stay away from work.  If it is 6%, well then I think that could be a big problem.  

Better safe than sorry.  Sadly, I had a lot of canned stuff, but when I moved this last week, I decided it was too difficult to move it all so left it with my old roommate.  Now I get here and wish I had it.  Bummer!  My cabinet right now has 1 box of fetuccini, and 3 bottles of Prego when I ran to the market for a few basics on Friday.  :~(

Meteorologist in Florida!?!  Now we're talkin'!!!

---

by: Tempest @ Sun Apr 26, 2009 at 14:25:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

24 Hours to Prep

Wow, I haven't posted since Old Yeller ....

Anyway, like a many of you, I had done some in-depth prepping a few years ago, but life got in the way, and prepping drifted off my radar.  This event has my attention, though.

I went thru my preps to see where I stood, and some things needed to be replaced for freshness (cooking oil) and general usage (TP).  Made my list and drove to Walmart, expecting crowds and items out of stock, and ... nothing.  Shelves were still stocked with N95 masks, OTC Meds, TP, rice, beans, everything.

I'm not sure why ... MSM is hitting this pretty hard, but it's not yet raising a lot of concern that I can see.  I wonder if the economy is a factor, people being very frugal with their $$.  I was out of work for a few months, which is why some of my preps were used up, so I understand the financial strains.

I imagine this will change if we get more cases in the U.S., and if any U.S. cities restrict public gatherings.

Nice to see all of you again!!

TMAG

---

by: TooMuchAnxietyGirl @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 20:49:44 PM UTC

Stale cooking oil can be used as fuel for lighting,

if you have some wicks (or cotton string, I think).  Would it work to make a wick from fiberglass (insulation material)?  I have a bottle of oil that expired only 3 weeks ago, and there are floating white bits all through the oil.  So I'll make an Aladdin's lamp with it, instead of dumping it.  

A tuna can would hold the oil, or possibly a Pyrex custard cup.  Probably I'll set it in a pan of sand, too.

Don't forget fire extinguishers for prepping.

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

---

by: Jane @ Sun Apr 26, 2009 at 16:26:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

velcome back, to my self, and all the late years lurkers.

I have missed you all;-) (realy!)  I guess we will be seeing each other much more in the time to come!!

...did prep some more of the basics today.I still had a impressive amount even if I have used a lot during last year.

Will still wait for vegetables, frosen meat etc.. Most of this are localy (nationaly produced) so I dont expect it to run short for a long time.

Monday will be flour, TP and other sanitary thiings,, Now its time for the toddler to learn off the diapers..

will wait and see if this is so bad that totaly SIP is in order.. or if this just has to be handeled as life challenges..

anyone have any idea for the outcome for the youngest on this stage? its not like H5N1 it seems..

hi from urdar
Norway

---

by: urdar @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 21:05:54 PM UTC

Re: swin flu... of course

Well I did walmart yesterday and grocery stock up today. I was thinking though, even though they say it's mild, I still don't want to get it. And what does mild mean, just that you don't die? Who needs the flu for a week?? We could still have problems even if a lot of people get the "mild" flu. They still need to stay home or take care of sick family members.  Back to prepping.... I am almost ready, except for my last minute list....I'm not sure I'm ready to say this is it, but I do believe that this is the time to make sure that everything is in place....

---

by: Ruth @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 23:33:40 PM UTC

even if it's mild...

You bring up an excellent point: even if it's a mild form of flu, 100% of Americans will be suspectible to this new virus. Say 50% become ill, but some will have extremely mild cases.

That leaves alot of people clogging the already crowded doctors offices, clinics and ER's seeking care.

It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.

---

by: Grace RN @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 23:43:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

This is my WTSHTF list for friends and relatives

If one day you hear on the news that the influenza pandemic has begun somewhere in the world, immediately take inventory of your supplies on hand and then go directly to the store to purchase any these things you're short of that you feel you may need. Not everybody will need everything and certainly it would be expensive to try and purchase everything you will want all at once.

If you're told that you can only purchase a restricted amount of any particular item you want to buy (such as chicken soup, rice, ammunition, batteries...), split up into groups or go to more than one store. Get essentials first, then deal with the incidentals. While there may not be any public panic at the moment that you first hear of it, it will happen sooner than you think and the wise person will have already gotten the things on the priority list rather than finding themselves waiting in lines for possible rationed items.

This list is not complete and you'll have to make your own buying decisions based upon what's best for you and your family (or core group) according to your particular taste and dietary needs. Use your credit card if you have too since you may very likely need all of your available cash for emergencies later on (Credit limits will very likely be lowered quickly to limit people from 'maxing' out their cards). As for cash on hand, you'll want plenty of $20 and smaller denominations. Any items marked with an 'x' means that you should consider buying extra, over and above what you think you'll need, and if possible, make note of the expiration dates as you pick them from the shelves, and purchase the items with the longest shelf life. It's believed that the internet will go down rather quickly, so save web pages on your pc for future reference, and print out any useful information you think you may need during such time as the power might be out.

Priority foods you'll want to secure for your essential food supplies: x-Canned foods such as: any type of chicken soup, other soups, chili, pasta meals, x-bags of rice, x-pasta noodles, x-beans, x-tomato sauce, bullion cubes, gravy (canned or dry mix), x-canned milk, applesauce, vegetables, flour, sugar, x-salt, pepper, spices, x-flour, cooking oil, butter, butter buds,

Other household consumables: x-Toilet paper, x-more toilet paper, x-anti-microbial soap (though anti-bacterial soap is better than nothing). x-Bar soap, x-shampoo, x-toothpaste, toothbrushes (for guests), x-deodorant, x-shaving razors, x-anti-microbial disinfectant spray (such as Lysol), paper towel's, x-large zip-lock bags,

Survival Related: Propane cook stove, x-propane bottles for cook stove (and/or larger tanks with adapters for cook stove or to refill smaller bottles), x-fire extinguisher, butane lighters and/or matches, x-flashlights, x-batteries, portable radio or TV (make sure the tv will receive the new digital signal as will be needed in 2009), AA battery powered two way FRS radios with the longest range possible (and extra batteries), self defense items (whatever that means to you, i.e.: pepper spray, x-ammunition). x-extra Large black trash or leaf bags (large enough to cover windows or to dispose of contaminated 'items' such as bloodied sheets or ?). Unscented household bleach (for purifying water).

Medical related: If you need prescription drugs, make an appointment with your doctor asap to secure additional medications for you or loved ones. In addition to your prescription medicines, you may want to secure over the counter items such as: x-Cold and Fever reducers, x-cough medicines, x-ibuprofen, x-aspirin, x-tylenol, x-thermometer, band-aids, bandages, x-neo-sporin, x-nitrile gloves, x-N-95 (or higher) rated face masks, x-unscented ordinary bleach, x-hydrogen peroxide, x-rubbing alcohol. Anbesol (or orajel, for toothaches), cloves (for pain killing), multi-vitamins and vitamin supplements such as vitamin C, Calcium tablets, Vaseline (this has many uses),

Other: Bible, Quarantine Sign (if you can find one), bicycle, home medical and 1st aid books, classic books for reading, games, tarps, large black 'lawn & leaf' trash bags for covering windows (and for burials). x-5 gallon gas can (full - store safely), re-chargeable batteries, solar powered battery charger, large rubber-maid bins or washtub for washing clothes (or for emergency potable water storage),  

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

---

by: iwrote1 @ Sun Apr 26, 2009 at 11:39:57 AM UTC

topping off

We pulled our emergency cash and made a trip to Costco yesterday. 50lbs. rice, 25lbs each flour and beans. Dog and cat food. bottled fruit juice and water. 5 gallons of veg. oil. We made some side trips and got 2 4gallons of propane, new hoses and regulators and a ton of strike anywhere matches. Some masks for daily use as we already have gas masks. 3 big bottles of hand sanitizer. 2 handles of vodka and some red box wine. I feel we are ready for at least a month of SIP. We are in Texas, Less than 100 miles from 2-3 cases. Still going to go to work, but thinking about staying home. Jon C  

---

by: JonC @ Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 12:09:38 PM UTC

Well I had to change my mind!

Tonight I went to 4 stores to check on N-95 masks and other staples for a Pandemic.  To my surprise 3 of the 4 stores which had N95 mask up to a week ago, no longer have them.  When asked; the managers told me they do not know when they will get more, and that resupply of many items is up in the air.  I looked around and found that certain items are disappearing fast: OTC Meds that deal with cold/flu, bottle water, and canned goods for now.  I expect as people catch their breath and get more money they will start on dry goods and alternate cooking methods.

The only things I can say tonight is, there is less people out and about tonight.  The price of gas went down 4 cents a gallon.

So it looks that the current way business is done, is going to bite us all in the A##!

  No warning - no way to fight - no way to win!  
We need help in our local communities to survive. Remember that quote:    "...No man is an island..."

---

by: RICHARD-FL @ Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 00:15:54 AM UTC

Richard, try eBay for the masks

I bought a caseload there on Monday. They also have surgical masks.  

---

by: WhiteSwan @ Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 00:25:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Also the Non-Health Sources (cleaning supplies etc) Link here

http://www.gemplers.com/dust-m...

Got mine here quite a while ago.  

Decent price and seleciton then.  

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 

---

by: Into The Woods @ Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 00:43:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

masks & gloves

I am in Missouri, and as of yesterday, we can still find masks (N95) and any kind of gloves at Lowe's and Home Depot.
Good luck.

---

by: LEG @ Mon May 25, 2009 at 03:14:30 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Grocery store manager conversation - outside of Washington DC

Did some weekly shopping plus a few extra supplies.  I noted the store was low on a couple of things I wanted.  At the checkout I began to talk to the cashier and he called over the manager.  

I explained that they might want to stock up on a few items since CDC would be running messages that people should have 2 week supplies of food and meds.  Additionally, I explained that WHO had ramped things up and if increasing numbers of people became ill there would be increased demand for OTC meds.  

His response was interesting.  He said that Wednesday is usually a very slow day (the slowest of the week) but it had been busy all day.  He said that he was noticing that certain shelves were empty and low, but didn't understand why.  

He immediately wanted to know what kinds of items would people be looking for - he was preparing his order and wanted to ramp up.  He said he had no idea about any of this but it explained what he was seeing.

I was surprised that quietly people seemed to be taking action.

---

by: spartan @ Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 00:40:19 AM UTC

Give him Owl's list. n/t

To calm the wife buy cases of chocolate, to calm the husband buy cases of booze, and to calm the children...... heck the booze and chocolate should work.

---

by: Oremus @ Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 00:48:48 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Then it would be yesterday. nt

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 

---

by: Into The Woods @ Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 01:13:32 AM UTC

Expired foods

Hi All,

I still have food stuffs from my last prep back in 2006 that expired in 2007 and 2008. Some canned some packaged, water too.  Should I go ahead and toss them and start all over?

Today I went and got a bunch of stuff from WallyWorld...wish I had a freezer to store stuff in.  Feeling a bit stressed about the state of affairs...especially since my kid works at a grocery store.

I have lots to buy, still.

Hollywood

---

by: Hollywood @ Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 01:48:52 AM UTC

That would depend. My advice (fwiw) and links to Educated advice.

I have to admit, the rotating got a bit lax.

I went through and tossed some stuff - but not a lot.

Many of the other items looked fine.

We've eaten many of the items that were 2-3yrs past the dates on the cans or packages without a problem.  (Though results may vary.)

The other thing I would consider, if space is not an issue, unless you know (or have a strong feeling) that food is bad, I figure it does not hurt to hold on to it at this point, especially instead of throwing it away.  If worse comes to worse, it's still there and might be good enough for you or others.  

Also, replace your chlorine bleach (for use in both standard sanitation and for water). Most folks don't know that chlorine has a fairly short (6mo-2yr) effective shelf-life even if not opened.

But anything that is critical should be on your list to buy new if you can afford to do it.  

Alan T Hagan has some excellent info here:

http://athagan.members.atlanti...

I'm guessing that the following sections would be of interest to you:
Shelf Lives

A.  "Best Used By", "Use By" and Other Food Product Dates
http://athagan.members.atlanti...

B.  Closed Dating Codes Used by Some Food Manufacturers
http://athagan.members.atlanti...

C.  Shelf Lives of Some Common Storage Foods

http://athagan.members.atlanti...  

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 

---

by: Into The Woods @ Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 02:12:17 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Shelf life

Thanks Into the Woods. I really appreciate the info. I will store in a separate place and let it be my "last resort" stockpile.

I can use my expired bottled water for cleaning purposes.

Hollywood

---

by: Hollywood @ Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 02:27:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

10 year shelf life

I got some of my preps vis Honeyville - they are good for 10 to 15 years.

Be Prepared

---

by: DennisC @ Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 03:21:53 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Expired water?

Why relegate it to cleaning purposes?  I've been drinking expired bottled water for the past year . . .

Should I be dead or something?

---

by: Clawdia @ Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 03:31:43 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Eating Nuclear-Peril Food While Wearing A Bellbottomed Leisure Suit

In October 1962 during the Cuban Missile Crisis, my late father filled a 6 foot high cabinet with assorted canned foods and Sterno.

Upon my parents divorce 16 years later when I was in college, he brought the contents of that cabinet to his new bachelor apartment as an initial pantry setup -- which served as the side dishes for all his meals over the next several months. When he told me this years later and I visibly gagged at the thought (we're talking things like 16 year old Spam), he shrugged and mumbled "Tasted fine".

Not an example I'm inclined to follow, but I suppose it's as good a testament as any to the skills of the canning industry.  

---

by: sn @ Wed May 06, 2009 at 06:46:50 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

50 year old can of chicken

There was a story in the UK a few years back, about a man who had a 50 year old can of chicken that he was going to, and subsequently did, eat.  If memory serves me right, he had no ill-effects.

To calm the wife buy cases of chocolate, to calm the husband buy cases of booze, and to calm the children...... heck the booze and chocolate should work.

---

by: Oremus @ Wed May 06, 2009 at 13:19:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Food

I have already done a bulk shop at walmart for lots and lots of pasta - easier to cook than rice, won't go off it gets left for a while, contains protein and the water can be re-used. Also to go with it I got trays and trays of kidney beans - can be boiled with the pasta as a meat substitute or eaten out of the can. I've probably got about a month's worth, more if I ration carefully.

And without wanting to sound obvious I've stocked up on certified facemasks masks (not the basic grade dental ones) from http://www.swinefeverprotectio... . FFP is the marking to look for.

As a treat I've got an old bottle of scotch and 5 bottles of red wine (assorted). Each of these can be taken boiling hot with garlic, lemon, cloves, natural honey in for general immune system health.  

---

by: Gershwin @ Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 12:24:37 PM UTC

Isn't honey dangerous for the (bird???) flu, as a cytokine storm?

I thought I read this somewhere (perhaps on this forum a logn time ago). I was shocked to hear it, as I use honey for colds and seasonal flu, and was glad that I saw it--I had planned to stock up on honey for BF.  You may want to check into this.

---

by: WhiteSwan @ Sat May 02, 2009 at 01:43:30 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yeast

It's a last minute prep since I want it to be active.

To calm the wife buy cases of chocolate, to calm the husband buy cases of booze, and to calm the children...... heck the booze and chocolate should work.

---

by: Oremus @ Sat May 02, 2009 at 00:35:06 AM UTC

After having food poisoning last week

and being stuck at home without some things I really wish I'd had, I've added a few things to my list.

Charcoal capsules, lots of them.
Soup - make sure you get the kind you like when your stomach is topsy-turvy.
Ramen - I never eat it but was craving it
Potatoes - ate quite a few baked potatoes as I recovered
Saltines - lots of them
Club soda
7-up
Books to read!

---

by: KimD @ Mon May 25, 2009 at 05:31:34 AM UTC

Why charcoal capsules? n/t

---

by: Clawdia @ Mon May 25, 2009 at 05:46:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Charcoal Comments

http://www.survivaltopics.com/...

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 

---

by: Into The Woods @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 20:41:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

OTC Drugs

This weekend, I had an arthritis flare-up, and discovered much to my dismay, all the many (many, many) types of painkillers in the house had either expired or possibly been spoiled due to exposure to heat.  I took some aspirin which did no good whatsoever, and the next day found that it had expired over a year ago!  Please check your medicine cabinet now, throw out expired OTC's and replace.

---

by: LA Escapee @ Mon May 25, 2009 at 17:28:26 PM UTC

Food Poisoning

KimD, another thing that's good for a rocky stomach is mashed potatoes and gravy.  Keep some instant mashed potatoes and gravy mix packets around, and if you're feeling peaky, make yourself a batch.  When I was really sick, I could eat mashed potatoes and gravy, and biscuits or white toast with honey when nothing else wanted to stay down.  You can always freeze a loaf of white bread and pull it out for toast as needed.

Also, you can eat instant pudding when you can't eat much else, and it takes about two minutes to make it from a dry mix.  Probably powdered milk would do ok to make both, but I haven't tried it yet.

---

by: LA Escapee @ Mon May 25, 2009 at 17:49:13 PM UTC

Saving Containers

I prepped back in 2006, but quite a bit of my food got bugs or got mildew (we live in a humid area of south Florida).  So I began to save all glass jars from pickles, mayo, spaghetti sauce, etc.  I now have enough to store rice/beans and grain that I will buy when things heat up.  

I also saved hundreds of drink bottles (from apple juice, Gatorade, sodas etc. but NOT milk jugs)and will fill them with water when the time comes.  Since they are currently empty, they are easy to store in the eaves above my garage.

I also purchase all of my cat food in the large plastic containers from Costco....good for rice, too.

Another pre-prep concept: I purchased large, flat plastic storage bins that fit under all the bed and use them to store photos, warranties, manuals, etc.  When I need them for rain collection, I will simply transfer all of the "stuff" out of them and stick them outside to collect rain whenever possible, then pour the rainwater into my bottles.  

Last suggestion - buy lots of gum.  Keeps you occupied while waiting for the next meal!

Life is short!

---

by: Ranchgirl @ Mon May 25, 2009 at 22:18:18 PM UTC

Water Storage

I found a good storage medium for water on the net and bought 3.  They are called Water BOB, and are basically a safe water bladder that you put in the bathtub and fill with 100 gallons of water from the bathtub spout.  They have a siphon pump to remove the water for use.  They claim the water will be good for 4 weeks.  Better than lugging plastic jugs all over the place.  I paid 19.95 for mine, so very reasonable.   Chuck

---

by: chuckwks @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 02:02:25 AM UTC

Thanks, I just ordered two.

---

by: outofsorts @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 02:39:20 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Officially One Time Use - But Good $

http://www.waterbob.com/Inform...

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 

---

by: Into The Woods @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 03:14:17 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Oh geez, I shoulda bought 4 (get one free) in that case... n/t

---

by: outofsorts @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 03:21:47 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thank you

I just ordered the 4 pack. Great "last minute" method to secure extra water to supplement preps. You could put them in a pre-built container (in basement?) and fill with a hose and store 500 gals in 3 hrs. While it says 4 weeks storage life, I'm thinking that boiling would increase this.

---

by: sors @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 03:59:36 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The water in a BOB will last longer...

If it's covered with a blanket or black plastic. The nemisis of water storage is sunlight...it allows algae to grow.

---

by: Bronco Bill @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 13:53:50 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

water Bobs

Instead of builing something to contain them, a simple thing I thought of is the small swimming pools they sell every summer at wal Mart and other stores, they cost about 15.00 and will support the water well.

---

by: TXnurse @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 07:16:59 AM UTC

How would the shapes fit together?

I can't picture the long water bob fitting well in a round pool.  Maybe 2, side by side?  The rectangle is closer to a circle.  I'm not very good with 3-D imagination.

If the water is for drinking, use a "potable water" hose instead of a garden hose, so no bad chemicals leach out.  I've seen that type of hose at Walmart and at Ace Hardware.  It's sold for RVs.

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

---

by: Jane @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 15:59:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Water Bobs

I've got two of those . . . I plan on putting them in two bathtubs, leaving the third tub free for other use - and the water in them would be used first, saving the bottled drinking water until after they'd been used.  

When I looked at mine, I got the impression it's made to be filled directly from the faucet on the tub - I did have one of those food grade water hoses, but my husband used it in a non-sanitary way last year and I haven't replaced it.  We have several 7 and 5 gallon water jugs that I'd want to fill with the right kind of water hose.

Add another thing to the list . . .

I do have two of those round kiddie pools - I bought 'em to catch rainwater in - one of those purchases at which DH rolled his eyes.  Still, I've got 'em.

I got a bit paranoid about what would happen if the Aqua Rain water filter had a problem, so I bought a smaller Katadyne (sp?) filter as a back-up.  Some of the bottled water I've stored is out of date - but I figure it's better than not having it, so we're working on drinking the out of date stuff now and replacing it with newer water.  So far it hasn't hurt us - it's in the better quality clear plastic bottles, not the cheaper plastic, at least.

---

by: Clawdia @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 16:44:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Water Bobs

The water bobs are about 8 mil clear plastic water grade. It is plyable enough to assume a more round shape if put in one of the kids pool, it just needs some support from the pool so the pressure of the water volume does not split the plastic WB.  

---

by: TXnurse @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 19:25:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Please Remember!

Please remember to get a potable hose, I got mine at Walmart and an adapter for your kitchen faucet.  That is an adapter that will fit onto your faucet and then attach the hose to that faucet.  It will make filling easy in your kitchen...because it could be winter or a cold fall when you need to fill containers.

You need to take your water strainer off the faucet to the harware store to see what threads fit...the hose end is standard.  

Water is so very important...you can live 3 weeks without food, 3 days without water and 3 minutes without oxygen.

---

by: FluMom @ Sun Jun 07, 2009 at 04:30:05 AM UTC

Hose

Amazon has a 10' potable water hose for less than $10 - mine should be here Monday.

Thanks for mentioning that about the adaptor for the sink - I'll make sure to get one of those next week, too.

---

by: Clawdia @ Sun Jun 07, 2009 at 04:48:20 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

What tastes good when you're sick?

This last weekend I had a bad stomach upset, and everything sounded bad.  Just could not figure out what to eat, and too sick to do any more than throw it in the microwave.  Finally ended up eating peanut butter and jelly. Couldn't even eat cereal because that's what made me sick (I acidentally ate a cereal that had something I'm allegeric to in it).

Anybody have any ideas on what hits the spot when you have no appetite and your stomach is extra sensitive?  Thanks.

---

by: LA Escapee @ Sun Jun 07, 2009 at 14:36:23 PM UTC

Sick people food

I meant to say, I have chicken soup in my preps, and couldn't eat it.  Could not think of one thing in my preps that didn't sound awful.  If you all could come up with a suggestion of what would works for you, perhaps we could all buy some for the preps stash.

---

by: LA Escapee @ Sun Jun 07, 2009 at 14:40:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Mint patties?

Not exactly healthy but loads of sugar and refreshing. Small nibbles only though.

---

by: UK - Bird @ Sun Jun 07, 2009 at 14:51:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Jello, as a liquid?

Under-strength Tang?  Pretzels or rice crackers?  Cream of rice cereal, rice pudding without eggs or raisins (but the milk may not work until recovery begins), or rice congee?  Chicken broth from powder or cube?

Ginger ale probably has an expiration date, though.  I have a few small cans, but it may not taste good by the time I need it.  The glass bottles may last longer.  Does anyone know?  TIA.

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

---

by: Jane @ Sun Jun 07, 2009 at 16:27:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I had the same problem

Had food poisoning a few weeks ago and realize my supplies were woefully lacking.  Now on my list...

- saltines
- club soda
- white rice
- potatoes (baked or mashed - I ate baked potatoes for 3 days)
- cheap chicken noodle soup, not the 'good' stuff, as for some reason when sick I want the cheap stuff.
- ramen noodles
- peppermint candies
- applesauce
- jello
- charcoal capsules (to absorb toxins)  

---

by: KimD @ Sun Jun 07, 2009 at 16:41:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Sick People's Food

Very settling to the stomach is ginger: ginger tea, ginger ale (if the carbonation doesn't bother you), crystallized ginger.  

Also, many Chinese herbal preparations for nausea include tangerine peel in the formulae. Many women with morning sickness have benefitted significantly from Altoids brand Tangerine Sours (hard candies).  

Also, using the sea-sickness preventives called "Sea Bands" (available at most pharmacies) will likely settle your stomach: they are elastic wrist bands with a plastic bump, and instructions on how to align the bump with an acupuncture point above the wrist (point # Pericardium 6) that "harmonizes the middle". You just wear the bands and after a little while, your stomach should quiet down.  Sea Bands come with an inert plastic bump, or with a magnet-impregnated version of the bump.  Personally, I would avoid the magnets, but I am a low-tech kind of person.

As for foods, the most easily digested grain is millet - a very inexpensive whole grain from the health food store, made like steamed rice - very easy on the digestion.  Hot broth with a bit of powdered ginger in it might be soothing.  Yams and orange squashes are very easy to digest.  Poached egg.  

Herbal teas: Chamomile tea quiets a funny tummy due to nerves; peppermint tea is excellent with an unhappy stomach with bloating/gas. These might sooth the stomach to the point where food becomes more appetizing again.

Generally, simple, light, bland, cooked foods may be your best way back to normal eating.  So, for example, yams, by themselves, not encumbered with butter or sugar or marshmallows, make a good reentry food.

I hope there's something that's a bit of help to you here.  Hope you feel better soon.

CrowCrone

---

by: CrowCrone @ Sun Jun 07, 2009 at 17:28:28 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not sure about 'hitting the spot'

But as I remember, what used to be recommended to get you on the road back to a regular diet once you felt like eating at all after an illness was referred to as a "BRAT" diet - bananas, rice, applesauce, and toast.   I've never had much luck with that, since nothing there has much appeal for me.

Jello and crackers work better for me, and sometimes a little scrambled egg and toast, or some bread with cheddar cheese melted on top of it (in small doses).

On my list of close to last minute preps are some jars of toddler style baby food - the shelf life isn't great or I'd already have bought some.  You might be able to tolerate something like that to get over the 'sensitive stomach' feeling.  I tend to eat strange things to get over that - last time, I think my electrolytes were out of whack because I had this enormous craving for salt.  I slowly worked my way through several bags of potato chips - something I'm pretty sure is on nobody's recommended list, but it was what I craved, and what I could tolerate.

---

by: Clawdia @ Sun Jun 07, 2009 at 16:35:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What to eat when sick

I have just stored away some crystalized ginger to settle stomachs and nausea.
When DDs are ill I find some dry toast or savoury crackers help them.

Ginger ale to drink helps too.

---

by: elona @ Sun Jun 07, 2009 at 16:11:36 PM UTC

Food for Sick People

A bunch of really good ideas!

Kim D, I too crave the "cheap stuff" chicken soup when I am really sick.  Must be the lack of anything but salt and carbs. Club soda or ginger ale is good too. My mom used to eat vanilla pudding baby food when her stomach was off. I hadn't thought of that for years.

Mint patties are good preps - the mint is supposed to settle your stomach. I do keep hard candy mints around, but couldn't even put them in my mouth this time for some reason.  Sometimes when you're sick you crave different things.

CrowCrone, have you tried the Sea Bands?  How were they? I didn't know how they worked.

Lesson learned: I noticed when I'm really sick, my brain turns off and I can't think of anything.  I'm starting to think the thing to do is have a "sick food" drawer in the pantry, with some of the above stuff in it, so I don't have to figure out what I can eat when I'm half dead. Maybe put flu OTC's in there too.

Years ago I was REALLY sick (food poisoning and the flu at once), and I actually forgot that I could call my dad and his wife was a nurse.  Maybe put a customized list of instructions in there to tell kids or family members who to call or what to do if you're out of it?

Anyway, thank for all your suggestions, guys, and please keep them coming.  There must be something here that will help somebody besides me.  Everybody has a different situation.

---

by: LA Escapee @ Mon Jun 08, 2009 at 04:21:32 AM UTC

bump

bump

---

by: alwaysprepared @ Sat Sep 19, 2009 at 15:29:45 PM UTC

Contact Lense Solution

I was thinking contact lense solution (coming from someone who walks into walls without them).  At what point do we give up contact lense up for eye glasses?  Can you get flu through contaminated lense???

---

by: Rural Dweller @ Sun Sep 20, 2009 at 00:24:17 AM UTC