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BBC Panorama Programme Misleads the Public on Swine Flu Vaccine

by: SusanC

Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 17:39:27 PM EDT


I have just finished watching the BBC Panorama programme on swine flu http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama...  I wrote the following as comment on the Panorama website - it is self-explanatory.
UPDATE: information on safety of UK's swine flu vaccine in pregnancy is here.  The vaccine, made by GSK, contains the novel squalene-based adjuvant AS03.
SusanC :: BBC Panorama Programme Misleads the Public on Swine Flu Vaccine
I am writing in protest at Panorama for misleading the public about the swine flu vaccine that will be used in the UK - specifically, for failing to inform the public that the vaccine will contain a squalene-based adjuvant called AS03, never before used in the UK, making the vaccine VERY different from the seasonal flu shot.

You first showed an Australian factory making vaccines in the seasonal formulation, and then you interviewed an expert from the CDC who says "there's every reason to believe it is as safe as the seasonal flu shot"  This was followed immediately by discussions about the swine flu vaccine in the UK, without explaining a crucial point: that the US is following a different policy than the UK, using an unadjuvanted vaccine made in exactly the same way as the seasonal flu shot, which is NOT the case here.  

While there is nothing factually incorrect in your programme, nevertheless as a result of your omission, the VAST majority of the public watching the programme will come away with the impression that the vaccine will be a similar product to the one shown in the Australian plant, and similar in safety to the view expressed by the CDC.  Neither is true.

This is a serious and unfortunate blemish on an otherwise well-researched, balanced and informative documentary.  I urge BBC/Panorama to rectify this by publishing a correction and disseminating this crucial information both online and through your radio/TV programmes.   BBC is a public service broadcaster and should take seriously its responsibility to accurately inform the public.

For more information, visit the adjuvants page on Flu Wiki http://www.newfluwiki2.com/tag...

This comment will also be posted online at http://www.newfluwiki2.com/dia...
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BBC Panorama Programme Misleads the Public on Swine Flu Vaccine | 58 comments
anyone else who watched this programme
please share your thoughts.  Thanks!


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...
or post a comment on their website n/t



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...
[ Parent ]
Thoughts
Susan,

I thought it poor fare. Something I can't quite put my finger on - I was left feeling as if I'd just watched an hour's worth of government propaganda.

Laughable (I could cry) when Liam Donaldson first said how open and honest he is and then slipping away from the question about the lack of provision of intensive care beds (did I hear right that there could be as many as 60,000 needed?) by telling us the government are doubling existing no. of beds to 4,000 and training additional staff in weeks-to-months.

David

[ Parent ]
yes, doubling the beds, how??
conjured out of WHERE?  


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...
[ Parent ]
I know!
And shame on Jeremy Vine for not pressing.
[ Parent ]
the only specific comments on the UK vaccine
were made by Liam Donaldson, who said this vaccine was "well tested" in trials based on H5N1, and that this strain substitution is a 'minor modification'.  Therefore, he says it's not true that the vaccine is being used with no prior testing.

He was referring to the 'mock-up dossier' process that the European Medicines Agency used to fast-track the licensure of a pandemic vaccine.  The process is explained and the issues explored in this diary Swine Flu Vaccine in 5 Days?  Please refer to the information on that page and also here to decide for yourself whether the risks of the adjuvanted GSK vaccine are balanced out by the benefits.


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

what Liam Donaldson failed to say
was that the 'minor modification' was from a novel adjuvanted vaccine developed with the prospect of a much more lethal H5N1 pandemic in mind, and NOT from the seasonal shot.

But that would not be the impression that you get, if you are the unwary uninformed public.  You would come away with the impression that this was a 'minor modification' from the seasonal flu shot.  

Again, I'm not implying that anyone said anything in the programme that was untrue.  OTOH, you don't have to be lying, to do a pretty darn good job of leaving a lot of people confused and misinformed!!!


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

[ Parent ]
in other words
a 'minor modification' from an unsafe vaccine, is still an unsafe vaccine.  IMHO.


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...
[ Parent ]
safety of AS03 in pregnancy
There was a group of pregnant women who were asked whether they planned on taking the vaccine.  None of them put up their hand.  One person said she was told by her consultant to definitely take it, but then she heard all these other stories, so she isn't so sure anymore.

For anyone who is pregnant and contemplating taking this vaccine, let me draw your attention to the following information taken from the file that GSK submitted for licensure, the section on reproductive toxicology.


In this study, six groups of 48 female rats were given a single intramuscular dose on Day -30 and paired with males and 44 rats with a positive indication of mating were treated on Days 6, 8, 11 and 15 after mating. 22 were killed at Day 20 and 22 were allowed to deliver and rear their young to Day 25 of age. Measures of reproductive toxicity and maternal health were assessed. The six groups were dosed with:
  1. saline, 200 ul
  2. AS03 adjuvant, 200 ul
  3. saline / split H5N1/AS03, 200 ul
  4. split H5N1 / AS03, 200 ul
  5. saline whole H5N1A1, 100 ul
  6. whole H5N1/A1, 100 ul

There was one unexpected death in a maternal rat: however, this was judged unrelated to the vaccine. Treatment of maternal rats did not adversely affect their clinical condition, bodyweight or food consumption throughout the study. Mating performance, fertility of maternal rats, and length of gestation or ability to give birth to a live litter were unaffected. Embryo-foetal survival, growth and development were not affected by vaccination. In neonates, the reflex development was unimpaired, but among offspring from dams treated with AS03 13 offspring from 7 litters did not show the air righting reflect before day 21 of age and this effect may be related to treatment. However, AS03 did not affect the attainment of the surface righting reflex or the ability of the offspring to show startle response reflexes or the pupil reflex. No abnormalities were evident on macro pathological examination of the offspring. This is considered a suitable study to assess the reproductive toxicity of the vaccine.

In other words

  1. 13 babies from 7 litters whose mothers had been given AS03, showed a delay in a neuro-developmental test.
  2. GSK admits this may be related to the AS03
  3. and the only conclusion they can draw in this section (since they can't say the tests showed no concerns about reproductive toxicity) was that this was an appropriate study for reproductive toxicity

Well, if it IS a suitable study to assess toxicity to offsprings of pregnant women, it would follow that the results (ie developmental delays linked to the use of the adjuvant) are valid for our assessment of risk to pregnant women.


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

link to source, the GSK file
http://www.emea.europa.eu/huma...


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...
[ Parent ]
more thoughts on safety of adjuvanted flu vaccines
recently posted on Effect Measure http://scienceblogs.com/effect...

Also here, my thoughts on the false choice of using adjuvanted vaccines so as to 'spare antigens' for the rest of the world.  http://scienceblogs.com/effect...



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

Reading those posts is very unsettling.
It's so clear that not enough is known for us (or the FDA, to narrow it down) to decide to tinker with a couple of generations (children and their parents) by giving them something that could hype their immune systems and not be reversible.  

"First, do no harm."  

It seems like we're on the edge of a precipice and in great danger.

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

[ Parent ]
Downplaying the scare
I felt that the programme dumbed down the previous 'scare' and 'hype' that the government has previously portrayed.
They have certainly lowered the estimated number of cases expected.
It was interesting that the pregnant women didn't seem at all convinced about the vaccination.
All I could think as the Australian woman had the jab for her whole family was 'guinea pigs'.
Yet todays news almost contradicts last nights findings, in that there has been a significant rise in cases just in the last week.
The worrying thing is that there was no reassurance that the hospitals could REALLY cope with severe cases.A definite worry that there are Not enough ICU beds or ECMO machines.  
UK law allows for Mass vaccination
Vist Jane Burgermisters web site http://www.theflucase.com/

There are secrect Uk government documents which talk about "special vaccination centres, Mass Fatalities and  vaccination of 100% of the population.

Jane burgermister has brought criminal alligations against the  WHO, UN, Baxter AG and Avir Green Hills Biotechnology.

She states that "Mass forced vaccination, [which the British government plan] with toxic substances clasified as bio-weapons by government regulators under the pretect of a national emergency, including a pandemic emergency, are illegal".

she cites "The Nurember Doctor's Trail of 1946 which reaffirms the basic right of everyone not to be vaccinated or injected with unknown and dangerous substances as part of medical experiments and also the right of everone to be fully and adequately informed about the contents of vaccines or injections".

If our government are planning such action then it is illegal. I suggest that you find out, and if so file criminal charges as well.  I am.

Nutter
I doubt I'll take any legal or medical advice from someone who just created their account to make one post, which links to a site with an incredible amount of paranoid delusions,  wild inaccuracies, and outright lunacy.

It's a testament to the poor science education most Americans get that such blather would get any audience at all.

[ Parent ]
I suspect the coped document is genuine
but there's nothing new about the information in it. It might seem alarming to those who haven't seen it before though.
[ Parent ]
Nutter
I rather be called a "Nutter" and be wrong, than an "imbecile" who did nothing! and I would say to you sir I have every right to my opinion. If you read my statement I said "IF" and "Find out". What I have learnd of Jane Burgermister is that she is Honorable, She has written for the British Medical Journal, The Scientist, Reuters Health, and The Guardain. and has credibility.

There are many Professional & lay people throughout the world, who are now taking legal action. Criminal charges file against the French government, Germans suing the Berlin government. Opposition to draconian pandemic Bill C6 in Canada, US Senator Ron Paul introducing a "No Conmpulsory" vaccine Bill. Evidence in legal affidavites file with the FBI, by the attorneys of Dr. Leonard G. Horowitz & Sherri Kane,an investigative journalist, against the leaders of a private global biotechnology "trust" who are behind the pandemic flu, including its origin & alleged prevention via vaccinations.

All "Nutters" sir? I say think again

[ Parent ]
we respect different opinions
thanks for posting.


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...
[ Parent ]
Was referring to the site, not you
You certainly are entitled to your opinion.

Just as I am entitled to say that a web site that says "The end result of this undeclared biological warfare being waged on the populations of the world by WHO would be genocide, the dissolution of nation states and a global coup d'etat by WHO of government functions if this plan succeeds" is not based on reality.

All one has to do is read the 'Summary of the "swine flu" criminal case' http://www.theflucase.com/inde... to see how delusional the authors of this site are.

Almost every sentence has errors and lies that could be easily picked apart by most of the readers of this forum. I'm sure most would consider it a waste of time.

[ Parent ]
Bill C-6 in Canada
Is also known as the Canada Consumer Product Safety Act and overhauls regulations concerning consumer safety and product recalls. As far as I know it has nothing to do with the pandemic. It was introduced in late January of this year before we knew there was a pandemic. I know of no opposition to it relating to the issue at hand and I follow politics here fairly closely.
[ Parent ]
The majority of the 'secret' information on the link isn't so secret
and is freely available from different parts of the UK health/government internet system.

We've often grumbled about how well organised the plans are for mass deaths in the UK and I didn't see anything I haven't read before (though I did skim though).

AFAIK while the government 'aims' to vaccinate 100% there's no plan to actually force people to be vaccinated. I think they'd find it near impossible to do such a thing unless the pandemic strain was a severe one (and then most people would want the vaccine). They can't even manage to get medical staff vaccinated consistantly so I doubt they'd try it with the wider population. Special vaccination centres make sense if you plan to vaccinate 100%, I suppose, though I doubt they'll need them. Anyone care to guess the number who will want a vaccine? 30%? Less? It'll depend upon how the virus progresses.

Many of the plans being issued are updated versions of generic documents written with H5N1 and a 1918 style pandemic in mind. They really didn't think properly about the different issues involved with different pandemic CFR rates. So the plans seem overkill for A(H1N1) and wouldn't go far enough for a pandemic H5N1.

The big question mark is and always has been the use of adjuvants :-( Much like the Panorama programme they'll gloss over the issues with it.

[ Parent ]
I've come across this stuff before
In my investigation of vaccine safety issues.  There are those whose writing and ideas are supported by science, and others much less so.  I don't find much credibility in this particular person's ideas...


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...
[ Parent ]
It would be more credible if Jane Burgermeister
did not refer to the "Illuminati". I'm afraid her presumed links to David Icke's group and the Prison Planet website does a valid argument more harm than good and means that reasoned argument can be largely dismissed by the majority.
[ Parent ]
Just the word "Illuminati" . . .
tells me I'm going to stop reading and move on to something I think might have some credibility.  That and Icke and Prison Planet . . . well, they've lost me before the hook even got close to catching this fish.

I guess they have a target audience - but I'm not it, and most people I know aren't either.

[ Parent ]
Forced Vaccinations have started
Well it seems that forced vaccinations have started in the US, Doctors, and nurses now comfiming that they have been threten with Job lose, & some even scaked. US Police & Firefighters comfrim that they "Must" take vaccine and will be mandatory in a couple of months. Even though OBama says it's voluntary, Hum yeah right.

Illuminati?, hum, I say  more like, an insidious group who want to commit genocide. See London Times, May/24/2009. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t... Who plan to reduce world population.

Those off you that are interested I suggest that you read Dr.Leonard G horowitz 45 page affidavit.http://www.drlenhorowitz.com/Affidavit.html containg "Hard Evidence", proving an international drug ring, operating from New York City, is behind the H1N1 swine flu fright & vaccination preparations.

David Rockefeller,trust,  Ruppert Murdock, Morton Zuckerman, Thomas Glocer, Jerry Speyer are all implicated in advancing global genocide.

Rupurt Murdock hideously & intimmutly involed in the vaccine developmet & research itself.

The European Governments are primarily using Baxter, the most hideous, untrustworthy vaccine & biotec company in the World. Vaccine produced from the African Green Monkies!

Come on now don't you think it's getting a little late to wake up?

[ Parent ]
Dr. Leo Horowitz Affidavit
http://www.drlenhorowitz.com/A...

if this dosen't work just google him

[ Parent ]
London Times
[ Parent ]
London Times
Lastime im trying to post the links
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t...
Leo Horowitz affidavit
http://curezone.com/forums/fm....
[ Parent ]
It's a huge leap to genocide, from this account:
[snip]Taking their cue from Gates they agreed that overpopulation was a priority.

This could result in a challenge to some Third World politicians who believe contraception and female education weaken traditional values.

Gates, 53, who is giving away most of his fortune, argued that healthier families, freed from malaria and extreme poverty, would change their habits and have fewer children within half a generation.

At a conference in Long Beach, California, last February, he had made similar points. "Official projections say the world's population will peak at 9.3 billion [up from 6.6 billion today] but with charitable initiatives, such as better reproductive healthcare, we think we can cap that at 8.3 billion," Gates said then.[snip]

 

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor
[ Parent ]
"Genocide" Sometimes you have to read in between the lines

Elizabeth Barrett Browning said " The Devils most devilish when respectable"(Aurora Leigh, book 7, line 105). & Shakespeare said "He's mad that trusts in the tameness of a wolf".( King Lear, act 3, scene 6, line 18).

Just because they speak with silver tonges & well oiled voices, masked in great sophistication & cunning, & with the pretext of "Charitable aid" dose not mean, that "they" don't want to commit "Genocide". Legal Def: 1948 Nuremberg Trails states any of the following acts... [including] "imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;[&, or/either the enslavement/control of a group of people].

"Charitable aid" wherein a people become dependent on a "Chemmical vaccine"! To cure malaria & "extreme poverty"!  Gates  argues  this would create healthier families! & to "change their habits and have fewer children within a generation". As though that "dependent Vacine" will give them better lives & achieve "Sustainable Growth".

These so called "big brain/s", answers, who insist that the earth is overpopulated, regard people as a liability, & not an asset.

Forbes magazine, asserts & forthrighty declears, " that the broadly accepted  premise that curbing population growth is essential for economic development, as preposterous . This editorial then states convincingly, "Free people don't 'exhaust' resources. They create them.

Gates gose on to say
"Official projections say the world's population will peak at 9.3 billion with charitable initiatives, such as better reproductive healthcare, we think we can cap that at 8.3 billion,"snip
And achieved in part by vaccine control population.

An article in U.S. News & World Report entitled "10 Billion for Dinner, Please" states that the earth is capable of producing food for a population of at least 80 billion, eight times the 10 billion expected to inhabit the earth by the year 2050. One study estimates that with improved scientific methods the earth could feed as many as 1,000 billion people. Stephen Budiansky, "10 Billion for Dinner, Please," U.S. News & World Report, 12 September 1994, pages 57-62.

Those who argue for sustainable growth via a vaccine controlled population lack vision and faith.

A huge leap to genocide? no just slow blind steps


[ Parent ]
Gates comment "reproductive healthcare" He means non-reproductive Healthcare
boo
[ Parent ]
Hi Tony
I looked through all of your links and I still don't find your theory convincing.  However, I do acknowledge that I don't support mandatory vaccination for civilians (the military is a separate issue and not my area of interest at the moment), whether they are healthcare workers or school children.  As a European I find it a little disconcerting that America as a great champion of liberty in general, nevertheless requires kids to be vaccinated before they can attend public school.  

I believe vaccines have lots of benefits, and most kids should receive them.  I do also believe that it should be a decision between the parents and their pediatrician, as to whether a particular child should receive a particular vaccine.  It is especially disturbing when vaccine companies have liability protection.  I understand there's a need for liability protection in some situations, but I feel strongly, as a matter of principle, that wherever liability protection exists, then the vaccine should NOT be mandatory.  

The combination of legal compulsion and immunity from liability is a dangerous recipe for cavalier attitudes in vaccine producers, and is IMHO also a violation of natural justice...  


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

[ Parent ]
You have to look a little harder Susan
Yes I agree in part with you Susan We need to know what is in a vaccine, what it will do?, the side effects?, who's makeing them?, are they really needed? are there alturnitives? etc.

Are we eating good clean foods? drinking good clean water, getting a good nights sleep, exersizing. Having a cheerful heart? fasting,  at least once a month to detoxic our bodies (only Adults not children). all these things have the power to defend against illness

 "I believe vaccines have lots of benefits", Yes if we know whats in them & not harmful. Yes &  if consulted with a Honest Doctor

"most kids should receive them"  maybe not, not if they are healthy?
let a childs body develop its defence system. again consulted with a good honest doctor.

I also believe that it should be a decision between the parents and their pediatrician, as to whether a particular child should receive a particular vaccine. yes I agree good honest doctors

America as a great champion of liberty, disconcerting? Yes their light is very dim at the momment I agree, but the good people don't have the government. not yet anyway but soon though :)

"The combination of legal compulsion and immunity from liability is a dangerous recipe for cavalier attitudes in vaccine producers, and is IMHO also a violation of natural justice...  
              Well there you go Susan

[ Parent ]
Vaccines, etc.
I think many people forget just how many children died in the past as a result of diseases that are now largely prevented in the US and many other countries as a result of the availability of vaccinations.

http://www.hhs.gov/nvpo/part6.htm

"We in the United States are very fortunate to be able to forget how many infants, children, and adults died, in previous generations, of diseases that we now prevent with a few injections. Many other countries are not nearly so fortunate. Polio, measles, hepatitis B, and other diseases still devastate many populations around the globe."

Fasting isn't really an accepted way of maintaining health, at least in the US.  It's never really caught on that "detoxification" as a result of intermittent intentional starvation is of benefit.

Exercising?  Yes, certainly.  Perhaps some exorcising of the demons that beset some of us might also be beneficial.

Planned genocide by way of vaccinations against diseases that used to kill large numbers of children, and leave others with lifelong disabilities?  That 'theory' might be one of those demons in need of exorcism.

[ Parent ]
Vaccines & Vaccines & more Vaccines,
Well Clawdia there are vaccines & then there are vaccines! No I don't forget clawdia, I am aware that there have been some good vaccines that have help to cure some illness & dieases throughout the world.

But first I want to address:- "fasting isn't really an accepted way of maintaining Health".

No it wouldn't be an "accepted way" of life in the US, or the uk & others, because not very many people pratice it! It's not so much as "starvation" but the denial,of food. And as I said to be done once a month, and for stronger minded people maybe once a week, and stronger minded people again could do more. NOTE I DO NOT SAY CHILDREN OR PREGANT WOMEN OR THE ILL OR IMFIRM. Fasting leads to self control,  selfmasteray, the bridelling up of your passions, Clear vision, & good health. Just look at what Gandi brought about with the power of it.

Become the "Master of your ownship". The benifits of it would cure a hundred & one ills.  try it, & findout.  It's all in the Doing! Oh & fasting would certainly give you the spiritual power to dismiss those Demons to there place!

Now Vaccine;

Dr. James J Garthwillkinson states, "In Hororrs of vaccination exposed & Illistrated" 1876 that:-
"This amazing act is the homicidal insanity of a whole proffession; this is Blood assination".

Professor Alfred Russell Wallace afirms "In This Wonderful Centry" 1899 that:- "Vaccination is a delusion, it's penal inforcement a crime"

Dr. Milton J Rousonal in 1914 stated
"Vaccination is not always a harmless procedure, it must be looked upon as the production of an accute infecteous diease".

"In the mouth of two or three Witnesses Shall every word be established".

You mention Polio, measles, hepatitis B, all made worse by vaccination. Are you aware that vast majority of the 2 billion Hep B suffers  contracted that diease from the "WHO's"  vaccine & immunisation programme "Where they just accidently, just, used a dirty needle.

Are you aware that experimental trail, Hep B vaccine, given in 1976-77 to homosexuals & volunteers "just to see if it would work". A few years later these people started  coming down with this strange new diease, which turned out to be Aids!

Hundreds of black African children contracting aids,& who  had no sexual contact. Yet after beening vaccinated started to develop Aids. A BBC programme covering this story in 1994, stated that they had contracted the aids virus from dirty needles again Organised and distrbuted through the WHO!

in 1715 (interesting year!) Johanathan Edwards author of the Book " Sinners in the Hand of an Angury God". critized
these early exponents of vaccine. And was given the small pox vaccine which killed him.

These Demons of the Dark who "Exorcise" there vaccine plan are even now compiling a hit list to " neutralise" doctors who have criticised the anti-arthritis drug the pharmacceutical gaint produced. http://www.theaustralian.news....

[ Parent ]
I sorta hoped that now they're seeing that people only need 1 dose
of the vaccine they'd scrap the adjuvant idea but I'm bound to be dissapointed.

Even if they did I wonder if WHO would persuade them against the idea so that the 'spare' vaccine could go to the poorer countries with no hope of a vaccine otherwise.

the profit motive is very powerful
It isn't just this pandemic.  The endgoal is to get adjuvanted vaccines licensed as seasonal flu vaccines.  And this pandemic is giving them the perfect opportunity, to get their product through the door.  


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...
[ Parent ]
If people refused to take vaccines with adjuvants,
they'd have to give up that idea.  I wonder how many people know what an adjuvant is, or why they would want to avoid it for themselves and especially for their children?  

It's a gamble whether or not anyone gets the flu, and it's a gamble about how serious his/her case would be.  What a choice, that you have to gamble that the vaccine won't hurt you or your kids either.  How can laymen judge it?  The authorities who should be making their decisions with our welfare in mind (long-term welfare, too)?  What's guiding them, or is that too impertinent a question?  [snark off]

Children who are most at risk of serious complications from the flu are the ones most in need of the vaccine, to avoid those complications and the need for hospitalization (and perhaps death).  Would some of those children be more likely to get an adverse reaction from an adjuvanted vaccine, I wonder?  Would doctors offer it without adjuvant in those cases, or is it already mixed?  

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

[ Parent ]
"already mixed"
Maybe, thinking about good intentions, "considering adjuvants just in case there's a mutation" is not too bad an idea.  IF this Cat1 becomes a Cat5 all of a sudden, I mean.

But that would mean countries with adjuvanted vaccines would have to keep the adjuvant separate until the last minute assessment of the risk-benefit equation.

How late is "until the last minute"?  Can this be done like with those high-tech glues that are mixed right on the two halves of the broken vase?

If the decision is already made, and the 2 halves of the glue are together in planners' minds, then we're in trouble.

You arm yourself to the teeth just in case.  You don't leave the gun near the baby's hand.

[ Parent ]
If the pandemic became a Category 5,
then would the adjuvant be needed to increase the supply, because so many more would decide they wanted to be vaccinated?  Or are you thinking the adjuvant would increase the vaccine's effectiveness?

Alternatively, if the pandemic became a Cat. 5, there would be more willingness on the part of the public to take more precautions, use more Non-pharmaceutical Interventions, such as close the schools before the new strain spread, at least in the places that hadn't gotten it yet.  Even if officials weren't willing to close schools officially, more parents would just keep their kids home in a more severe pandemic.  Staying "Just At Home" would take some of the pressure off demand for vaccination, until more could be made.  

I'm not sure that adding adjuvant would be advisable even in a Cat. 5 pandemic.  People would be willing to cut up their T-shirts to make masks for the adult who must go out, then come back home and take off shoes at the door and be very careful about contamination.  

How many volunteering to wait for the next batch would it take, in order to not have to add that adjuvant?  It's really complicated to think about, but how many cases of lupus or other auto-immune diseases might crop up with an adjuvant?  I guess we can't know until it's too late. :-(

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

[ Parent ]
Profit Motive? Rubbish!
The reason world vaccine production capacity is very limited and adjuvants are even considered is exactly the reverse of the above assertion. Vaccines are not very profitable at all compared to drug production.

There is infinitely more money to be made in producing the daily drug cocktails to treat lifestyle diseases of rich western countries compared to producing a "one off" vaccine shot for a child in the slums of Rio De Janeiro or Sub Saharan Africa that must be sold, if it isn't given away, for pennies.

The net result of this situation is that investment by big pharma in vaccine development and production capability is marginal at best,and now we are facing a pandemic with little or no surge capacity at all.  

My own efforts in support of AIDS vaccine development foundered on exactly this issue - profitability.

[ Parent ]
How many shots are required or recommended for children
in the US?  Twenty or more, by the age of six, IIRC.  What if pharma companies could include adjuvants in each one?  They have a captive group of consumers every year, don't they?  They already have the research done for producing childhood vaccines and the adjuvants, so it is a different situation from developing a new vaccine for HIV/AIDS.  All we have to do to help their profits is accept their adjuvant in H1N1, and then, can it be kept out of the other vaccines?  It would be the camel's nose under the tent, more or less, so I doubt it.  That's pure profit, too, isn't it?  (Except for PR in response to adverse events reporting, that is.)

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor
[ Parent ]
profit motive in vaccines?
Pandemic vaccine is one-shot, hurry, pressure.

Seasonal is every year, pay for it, long term investment, higher return (I guess).

You arm yourself to the teeth just in case.  You don't leave the gun near the baby's hand.

[ Parent ]
IMHO
I believe like in 1976 TPTB have made all this vaccine so they need to use it.  It is like you give a party and no one comes!!

I also think the CDC and TPTB don't want this administration to look bad if lots of people get sick and/or die.

Also TPTB also spent lots of money on this vaccine so to save face they need for people to use the vaccine.

It is always about the money!

[ Parent ]
People Do Not Know!
I work in a school and I tried to explain adjuvanted vaccine to our Principal...his eyes went into a deep fog!!

He just said, "I will have you tell the staff when the vaccine is available.

Do we know in the U.S. which vaccine makers are putting out H1N1 NON-Adjuvanted vaccine??

If no one here knows, who do we contact to find this information?

the current plan for the US
is to NOT use adjuvanted vaccines.  This diary primarily deals with the issue in the UK, where the current plan IS to use adjuvanted vaccines.

For information on the US, go to this diary http://www.newfluwiki2.com/dia...


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

[ Parent ]
Many medical staff have never heard of it!
(This is in the UK, where we are going to get adjuvanted vaccs).
[ Parent ]
which is why we need to disseminate this information n/t



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...
[ Parent ]
Under the "Emergency Plan"
I was told at our CDC Conference in Denver that they will use adjuvanted vaccine under the Emergency Plan.  However, you would have to be informed that you are receiving adjuvanted vaccine.

Anyone else hear that at the CDC Conferences?

[ Parent ]
yes, they can always use Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)
but so far, the process has been reasonably open, in the US, so you can get a lot of idea of the thinking behind their policymaking, by following their advisory committee meetings etc.  For example, the NBSB Pandemic Working Group reviewed the science, and one important consensus that came out was that it's worse to have a vaccine with high risk of adverse reactions AFTER the peak of the pandemic is over.  It will incur high risks and very little benefit.

Based on that line of thinking, and on the fact that this pandemic wave is unfolding quite fast, plus clinical trials data (for the US) on the adjuvanted vaccines won't be available till November, I would be very surprised if the US government decides to still use adjuvants, AFTER the peak is over.  

These issues (including EUA etc) are well summarized in this diary Mass vaccination against swine flu H1N1 in the US.  There is another NBSB meeting coming up in a few days.  Keep an eye out for updated information.

Again, this does not apply to any other country, just the US.


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

[ Parent ]
take a look at the CDC FluView charts
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/...

Click on each region to see individual charts.  The pandemic is unfolding briskly all across the US.  There is NO region that hasn't seen a spike yet.  

I will be VERY surprised if most peaks are not over come November.


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

[ Parent ]
Is there a cumulative total of deaths for the US anywhere?
Seems very odd that the number has not gone up from 593 since 5th September.
[ Parent ]
CDC changed the way they track hospitalizations and deaths
The total from the beginning of the pandemic to August 30 was 593. This number won't change.

The new reporting is done as part of the flu weekly report at http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

The new numbers may include pneumonia and influenza-related deaths that are not confirmed with a lab test, so they aren't directly comparable to the previous numbers.

The latest is:

Pneumonia and Influenza Hospitalization and Death Tracking:

This new system was implemented on August 30, 2009 and replaces the weekly report of laboratory confirmed 2009 H1N1-related hospitalizations and deaths.  Jurisdictions can now report to CDC either laboratory confirmed or pneumonia and influenza syndromic hospitalizations and deaths resulting from all types or subtypes of influenza, not just those from 2009 H1N1 influenza virus.  To allow jurisdictions to implement the new case definition, counts were reset to zero on August 30, 2009.  From August 30-September 12, 2009 4,569 hospitalizations and 364 deaths associated with influenza virus infection, or based on syndromic surveillance for influenza and pneumonia, were reported to CDC. This is the second week of data from this new system and reflects reports by 56 jurisdictions.  CDC will continue to use its traditional surveillance systems to track the progress of the remainder of the 2008-09 season, and the 2009-10 influenza season, which officially begins October 4, 2009.  

[ Parent ]
Thanks, Jerry
Wish someone would tell the ECDC, as their data gathering seems to have been less prone to Health Authority meddling than the WHO's.
[ Parent ]
Canada is re-thinking adjuvants
from Helen Branswell http://www.edmontonsun.com/new...

Another issue that appears to be on the table is the proposed use of an adjuvant in the pandemic vaccine. Adjuvants are additives that boost the impact of a vaccine, allowing a smaller dose to be used for each person.

Canada has said it will buy adjuvanted vaccine from GlaxoSmithKline, which has the country's pandemic vaccine production contract. GSK is making the vaccine at its facility in Ste-Foy, Que.

GSK plans to sell the vaccine in 3.75 microgram doses with adjuvant, a quarter of the size of the non-adjuvanted doses the United States will get from its pandemic vaccine suppliers.

While adjuvants have been used for years in Europe in flu vaccine targeted at seniors, there is currently no licensed flu vaccine containing adjuvant in this country. There is also no safety data for the use of adjuvanted vaccine in pregnant women, and little data on the safety of the additives in vaccines given to children.

Though it had first said it would only buy adjuvanted vaccine, the Public Health Agency of Canada has already shifted positions, announcing recently that it would buy 1.2 million doses of unadjuvanted pandemic vaccine to offer to pregnant women.

And agency head Dr. David Butler-Jones has hinted there may be room for further movement, a response to concerns from some experts that parents may decide not to vaccinate their children if the vaccine contains an adjuvant.

I see no reason why the UK can't do the same...


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

Good point near the end.
Other sources say there may even be talk about the need to use an adjuvant at all, given that studies show swine flu vaccine without adjuvant works well and given that the use of adjuvant significantly increases the cost of the vaccine.

Hmmm: use of adjuvant $ignificantly increa$e$ the co$t of the vaccine
That's surprising, because they had to make the antigen as a new product, but they've had the adjuvant for a while.

Also, kids over 10 don't need a second dose, so that saves on quantity.

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

[ Parent ]
LOL, that's right!!
use of adjuvant $ignificantly increa$e$ the co$t of the vaccine

We also know that from the example of the HPV vaccines.  http://www.newfluwiki2.com/sho...  I'm sure an unadjuvanted form would have been much cheaper (and probably much better tolerated).


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

[ Parent ]
no, not because of that
That's surprising, because they had to make the antigen as a new product, but they've had the adjuvant for a while.

but because it's proprietary.  When anybody (who has the capacity) can make the product, it's always going to end up cheaper, than if only 1 company has sole rights to make that product.  Proprietary products are always more expensive than generic ones....  


All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

[ Parent ]
BBC Panorama Programme Misleads the Public on Swine Flu Vaccine | 58 comments
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