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Observations at 3000 ft - Pandemic Planning at the OSDFS Conference

by: SusanC

Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 14:08:29 PM EDT


( - promoted by SusanC)

Pandemic planning and community mitigation implementation - what can we expect from educators and school administrators?
SusanC :: Observations at 3000 ft - Pandemic Planning at the OSDFS Conference
I've had a very interesting time last week attending the OSDFS 2007 National Conference, organized by the Department of Education Office of Safe and Drug-Free Schools.  The theme of the conference was "Reflecting on the Past and Looking Ahead", and conference topics included
  • Preparedness and School Safety
  • Health, Mental Health, and Student Well-Being
  • Alcohol, Drug, and Violence Prevention
  • Character and Civic Education
  • Training
so pandemic planning formed only one strand of the full agenda of the conference, and I was only present in the relevant events.

First the big picture.  Most of the attendees, as listed on their webpage were teachers, counselors, school administrators, etc.  Since they are mostly representatives from their local areas, the observations here are not quite ground level, but quite a bit further down the chain for national strategies or policies to trickle down through!  From the number of tables laid out for the luncheon events, I would say registered attendees probably numbered just over 1000.  However, probably just under 80% of seats were filled for the luncheon plenary, which I would imagine was a keynote event.  The closing session on Saturday, preceding the final round of workshops and the pandemic tabletop exercise, had only about 30% attendance.  More on this later.

I did attend the luncheon plenary session on Thursday.  The first speaker scheduled on the program was Frances Townsend, Assistant to the President for Homeland Security, who was going to speak on The role of Schools in Individual and Community Preparedness Efforts.  In the event, she was unable to attend and the speech was given by Rajeev Venkayya MD, Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Biodefense at the Homeland Security Council.  Dr Venkayya, as our forum regulars will recall, has won some brownie points on previous occasions as one of the people at the top leadership who really 'gets it'.  ;-D

Given the last minute change of speaker, I must say he did a great job of utilizing the occasion to bring the pandemic message to the audience, especially the implications of a 1918-like pandemic, the current CFR for H5N1, the vital importance of community mitigation measures, as well as sincere acknowledgment that a lot more work needs to be done by the Feds and that implementation of the CMG will require a lot of effort on everyone's part.  There were sharp intakes of breath and gasps around the room on '2 decades of child deaths in one season' and '60% CFR for H5N1 vs 1-2% for 1918'.  He also elicited ripples of laughter when he commented on "you know how kids are with their secretions, right?"  There were lots of furious note-taking and hearty rounds of applause.

That being the case, FW folks can hardly blame me for being mildly optimistic going into the next day's events, a morning plenary on pandemic preparedness followed by 'advanced pandemic planning' as one of several concurrent workshops.  The plenary session (which had probably just over 50% attendance) was mainly focused on CMG, and featured 2 presentations, by Michael Doney from the Division of Global Migration & Quarantine, CDC, on the CMG itself, and by James Hodge, Center for Law and the Public's Health, Johns Hopkins University, on legal authority for school closures, followed by additional people from the USDA, Dept of Labor, and CDC as panelists for the Q&A.

I must say Michael Doney made a very coherent presentation on various aspects of the CMG, except for one slightly unsettling aspect.  Now, I cannot say that I'm 100% certain, but apart from a passing reference to 'early' implementation of PH measures in St Louis vs Philadelphia, I don't recall any comments on when the trigger should be pulled, ie before 1% of the population is infected (from MIDAS modeling data), or, first confirmed cluster of community transmission at the state (or contiguous territories) level, as recommended in the CMG.  Now given the time constraints, I wouldn't expect him or anyone to have been able to say everything that is included in the 108-page document, but to the extent that 1918 historical analyses show that the strongest correlation with outcome was with the timing of implementation of PH measures, I would have thought the emphasis on EARLY should be one key message for those who will need to implement the policy!

I don't know how much that affected subsequent outcomes, but in the workshop that followed, of which I only attended the second half, there was NO mention of early as opposed to reactive school closure, ie after 10% of kids are out sick, as I saw on one of the slides!  At one point, one of the speakers made a reference to the goals of pandemic preparedness, the top one being "to limit death and disease".  I was appalled to hear the next sentence that came out of this person was along the lines of "but we in education do not speak of death and illness, we talk about promoting health instead" and moved on to hand washing and other general hygiene measures.

Without going into further blow-by-blow accounts, let me share some observations that I took away from these and the final day's tabletop exercise, which was supposed to be "first come first serve" and "limited to 100" people, and which in the end attracted 26 including myself.  Not exactly overwhelming interest.

For me, the big picture question was whether and to what extent we can depend on educators and administrators to implement CMG properly.  I was more than a little troubled by the overall and deteriorating attendance rates in the conference.  I'm sure many delegates left for legitimate reasons, but I have a suspicion when compared to other professional events that I have attended that the education profession probably contains a larger contingent of those who will go AWOL on government expense.

The second observation was on the question of what drives these people: based on the relative amount of time devoted to discussions, I would guess that

  1. the top driver was funding
    • how to obtain grants was a hot topic
    • how to keep funding coming, specifically in the form of payrolls, was "the most important part" of continuity planning
    • complaining about how the megabucks are going to PH and DHS, while probably legitimate, also took up an inordinate amount of time, in one instance 8 out of a 15 min presentation
  2. the second one was various versions of passing the buck
    • The theme varied from something like "who's going to take the can" eg in the context of authority for school closure,
    • to "why do we have to do this?", which was the first question at the tabletop exercise,
    • on school meals, the emphasis appeared to be more on "where does it say we are the ones who have to feed the kids" than "how are we going to feed the kids"
    • Despite official lip-service paid to how "schools have a vital role to play in community preparedness", echoing Venkayya's words, lamentations of how "schools can't do everything" were alas more prevalent than not, and coming out of the feds not attendees...
  3. the third driver is fulfilling requirements, which of course is also tied to funding.  I do have some sympathies in this regard, as official guidance from the Dept of Ed on which if any of the requirements might be waived in a pandemic is not only absent, they were unable to even give a vague timeframe as to WHEN these guidances can be expected!  As far as I can tell, the major concerns surround the following requiremens:
I did get a chance at the tabletop to bring up the concept of saving lives, that it's not just about "what we've been told to do".  I quoted the reduction of mortality from 1918, and told them I haven't seen ANY intervention eg antivirals that comes even CLOSE to such efficacy, as I noted in this post yesterday, and that lowering the AR protects everyone, including those who have to go to work, which did appear to pacify some of the more reluctant people in the room. I think they also finally understood the concept of 'early'; I just wish there were more than 25 people (out of a national level conference) for me to convince, though.

Finally, as an illustration of the huge amount of work that still needs to be done, I have posted the files from the tabletop session, provided as a resource so educators can conduct their own exercises.

Take a look especially at the participants manual.  Here are a number of errors that I picked up.  I'm sure they will continue to correct and improve it, seeing that this has 'DRAFT' all over it, but it does illustrate as I said the extent of ignorance (or non-compliance) that we need to guard against.

Module 1 starts with year 2010, with limited cases of h5n1 in asia, etc, "in view of the situation, the WHO issued a phase 3 pandemic alert" - (at least there were a couple of people in the room who said, we're already in phase 3.)

Module 2 WHO phase 6, the virus gets to the US with sporadic cases, the manual says "given the highly infectious nature of the h5n1 virus and the escalating situation in asia, the pandemic severity index PSI is activated, prompting a move from alert to standby mode."

Module 3 - increased h2h in the US - with no reference to death rates anywhere, it says "because numerous human h5n1 cases have been confirmed throughout the US, the PSI level is raised to 5."

Module 4 (here's where it gets really fun, or weird) - first wave is over, cases on the decline, for now.  "The PSI level has been raised to 6" while recovery starts.

Enough said!  I believe the sum total of all these observations, from attendance rate to the lack of interest to the mistakes and distortions that happen to the federal guidance, is the perfect mirror of what happens to well-meaning hard-won policies when it comes to implementation.  That the system is always going to be as strong as the weakest link, that a lot more work is needed to bring everyone along. 

But the most important lesson for me is that the ultimate effectiveness of any policy implemented in a 'trickle-down' fashion is totally dependent on the quality, intentions, and number of layers of players/institutions that the policy has to trickle through, such that the chance of the eventual outcome being equal to what was intended may be a rapidly dwindling number approaching zero, unless the top leadership actively, urgently, and directly empowers the ultimate end-users that the policy is supposed to protect, aka the general public. 

With all respect to all the hard-working well-meaning creators of the CMG, including especially Dr Venkayya, my concern is that until the day every parent can stand up in public meetings and quote your document chapter and verse to hold officials accountable, we are a long way away from being able to save all those lives that the CMG in theory says we can save.

POSTSCRIPT:  For CMG planning resource, go here for a short bullet-point version of the key points of the 108-page CMG document.
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Thank you for attending
this conference, SusanC. 

Are there any indications that the Department of Education itself will put out any direct guidance document?  I believe that this may be the only strategy which can plausibly get the attention of the Ed. community. 

CMG is still under the auspices of PH, who Ed. does not want in their business. CDC is most definitely 'somebody else's department,' and I doubt Education feels that they understand their particular requirements, funding limitations, and concerns.

Part of the problem may be that the CMG has the CDC logo stamped all over it, not the CDC logo AND the Dept. of Ed. logo.  Things like that can matter to these people. 

This not very encouraging picture you painted of having only you and 25 of your fellow concerned (but yet still questioning) compatriots turn up at that pandemic preparedness tabletop should clearly signal to those at the top that something is wrong in the way that this concern is being translated from the highest levels, down the chain. Maybe the obvious lack of interest in attending this tabletop can encapsulate for them, and help give them a visual picture of, the problem of disinterest we so often have to deal with locally?


No, the CMG
very clearly has the seals of many agencies, including the Department of Education, on it.

So it is not true that it is under the auspices of PH.  It is the job of every federal agency to implement the policy that has been adopted at the national level. 

Whether they have the will and the competence is of course a different story and a matter of considerable concern.

Maybe the obvious lack of interest in attending this tabletop can encapsulate for them, and help give them a visual picture of, the problem of disinterest we so often have to deal with locally?

I think the whole series of observations here encapsulate everything.  Hence my concluding remarks in the diary.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
agency seals
check out this slide, from Michael Doney.





All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Dept of Ed guidance
Are there any indications that the Department of Education itself will put out any direct guidance document?

This may not be entirely accurate cos I only caught snippets of it, but my understanding is "they are working on it" whatever the 'it' is, and that there is no indication at the current time when any guidance might come out. 

A participant asked whether they might expect something for fall 07, meaning presumably before the end of the year, but even for such a vague time-frame the Dept of Ed person could not confirm whether that was possible or likely!



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Ref. the Michael Dooney comments
I took it upon myself to run for, and win, a seat on my local BOE specifically because, knowing what I know, it will be critical to close the schools early when pandemic begins.  Becoming a member of the BOE seemed to me the only way that I could obtain the authority and voice to make a persuasive case, and a yeoman's effort,  to ensure schools are closed early in my town.

From all I know - via modeling, tabletops, community engagement meetings, historical studies, discussions with experts - early school closure is a critical aspect of pandemic mitigation. 

How could this key emphasis be somehow lost in translation? 


moving
what was the CAR and CFR for those who moved from St.Louis
to Philadelphia between 11/9/1918 and 11/23/1918 ?
Is moving a good strategy ? (if they let you...)

ask experts for their subjective
panflu death expectation values
and report the replies


[ Parent ]
I wondered about that myself
cos he was very thorough and clear in the rest of the explanations.  I agree with you the early part is the most important part of the message, and the trigger is what is most important technical point for implementers to grasp, for practical purposes.

I can't quite explain it myself.

The other thing is, afterwards when I went up front to talk to the speakers, there was a guy asking all sorts of questions, obviously a skeptic.  He commented on whether there was sufficient 'evidence' to justify CMG, and Doney was referring to the IOM report and stuff, and it almost sounded like there wasn't much data to go on, until I couldn't help myself - yeah, I know, I know, I find it hard to shut up and leave well alone... - and basically said "excuse me, but the 1918 historical analysis is published in 2 different studies in PNAS, and I understand that another one by Howard Markel's group is coming out in JAMA, although I haven't seen it myself."

At which point Doney proceeded to agree with me, so maybe he just needed to be reminded, or he had a different definition of what constitutes 'data'. 

Anyway, a couple more comments were made by Doney on how parents would take their kids out of school, we will have the same negative consequences, except we will not be prepared for it.  He repeated this a couple of times, and it IS a legitimate argument, except that he never got around to saying the most crucial point, which is, that parents taking their kids out of school would happen too late to get the benefit from reduction of transmission, which is the whole POINT of early implementation of CMG!  Of course, me being me, I had to again put in my 2 cents worth, and added that part to his comment.  I must say he was very gracious about my intrusions.  ;-D

One more point was made by the questioner, who said you know there's no point in closing schools in inner city areas where kids live in such crowded households "like 5-6 kids in a family" or something like that.  Now, we on this forum KNOW that the kids meet far more than 5 or 6 people per day in school.  In fact, Doney's own presentation showed how schools are so much denser than any other environment, such as in this slide.

So I would have thought it would have been pretty straight forward to bring up this point as a rebuttal, to STAND BY the policy that he is supposed to be introducing (or promoting?) to the audience.  Well, it never quite happened, and the conversation kinda fizzled off with some non-specific comments about how this is just an interim guidance, that the feds are only giving out suggestions for the locals as advice for what they might do, or something to that effect.

Now, don't get me wrong.  I think Michael Doney is a swell guy, and I understand that everyone can have off days.  I myself was a little slow in grasping the implications (if there were any) of my observations until much later, so it could be that he was just as 'spaced out' as I was, for whatever reason.  OTOH, to the extent that this was probably THE most significant national conference for CMG implementation for the education sector, I would have thought folks at the CDC would have taken a lot of care to craft the message.

As it was, as far as I could tell in the subsequent sessions, NO ONE got that they were supposed to close schools differently from how they would normally do it, ie when x% of kids are out sick.

 



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
How early is early trigger for closing schools?
As a comparison, the Ontario plan calls for triggering school closure for a severe pandemic defined as CFR > 1% when there is a cluster of cases within a Ministry of Education Region or in a nearby community in an adjoining Ministry of Education Region.

page 7-10 below:

http://www.health.go...


You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


[ Parent ]
it's the same for the US
first cluster of community transmitted cases in a state or contiguous territories.  It's all in the document. 

They just needed to TELL the public!



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
from a practical POV
it should be done within the first ten days of an area/region being at risk.

[ Parent ]
how do you mean
can you explain the 10 days?  Where can we find that?



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
I'l try to locate it n/t


[ Parent ]
while I'm looking
take a look at this from state of MD:

link

that's a .pdf source, but look at the picture:

Since flu has an incubation period of 1 to 4 days, with a mean of 2 days, and you have to stop it before the big peak, better do the school dismissal early, preferably within a few days of it appearing.


[ Parent ]
lnk didn't work
and can we get a bigger pic to look-see? 

Thanks!



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
well, 10 days is what it takes
to get a 10-fold rise in cases, or to shift from 0.1% to 1%, or 1% to 10%.

To give a different perspective, the delay in Philadelphia in 1918 as compared to St louis was 2 weeks, which represented 3 - 5 doubling of the epidemic size.  http://www.newfluwik...

All I know is St Louis got away with low death rates because implemented their measures 2 days after the first case.  If that is what it took in 1918, we will have to do at least that well or better, in our modern densely populated highly connected societies!



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
optimal timing is
within the first few days.

[ Parent ]
What about diagnostic test results?
What level of test confirmation is needed before triggering school closure?

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

[ Parent ]
right now
we don't have good rapid diagnostics yet, but work is ongoing.  In the absence of that, then the usual tests such as PCR etc would apply.

The criteria calls for laboratory confirmation of a cluster of infections by the pandemic virus involving cases in more than one households, ie community spread, not just household spread.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
you don't need them
when a pandemic is breaking out elsewhere. It's not likely to start in CT or MD.

Different story if NY, e.g, or LA is where it starts. In that case, we won't know in time.


[ Parent ]
no, I think we do need them
for the purpose of implementing at the right time.  There are dangers in implementing too early, or having to call off a false alarm, which will cause a great loss of confidence as well as subsequent implementation fatigue.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
no you don't
you need them for other things but you don't need them for this.

If there's an ongoing H5N1 outbreak in SE Asia and then Europe and then there's a documented H5N1 flu case in Chicago, and then people in NY and MA get flu symptoms, that's all you need to know in CT. You'll get a diagnosis of flu confirmed, but not H5N1. You are on heightened alert, and at the first sign of influenza like illness, parents will not be sending their kids to school in CT, and the governor will become involved. 


[ Parent ]
well, I hope other states
are as proactive as you are describing.  It isn't what I've observed, and that's our biggest current problem...



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
My opinion...
is to shut down the schools as soon as it hits the east coast. We are in NH so it wouldn't take very long for someone to get off the plane in Boston and drive home to NH. 

Once one kid at school gets it, it is over!

I have suggested web base learning - even sent them a link to a program - The response was....teacher's contracts, blah blah blah.


[ Parent ]
the thing with the web based approach
that I learnt, was the issue of fulfilling the 180-day teaching requirement - how does one count a 'day'?  Can we add up hour slots to make a day?  What about testing?

The other major headache is the FAPE requirement, Free and Appropriate Public Education for students with disabilities.  What this means is that you CANNOT teach any student via web-based means unless you are at the same time able to provide the same standard of education to those with disabilities for whom such teaching methods are not appropriate!

Unless, of course, the Dept of Education waives such requirements, or tell teachers to go ahead and plan for web-based teaching with the expectation that such requirements will be waived in a pandemic.  Because, it doesn't look to me like people will start taking serious planning steps until they know those requirements will be gone.

There are many ways of justifying inaction.  Bureaucratic gridlock is the easiest way out for many.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Too late
If they wait to close schools on the east coast until there's a confirmed case in the region, they've waited too long.

In the face of a severe pandemic, things such as teacher's contracts, 180 day school years, and even web based learning would rapidly become concepts almost laughable in their irrelevance. 

If I had a school age child, the decision about when school ended for my child would be made whenever the pandemic strain emerged, and it would have nothing whatsoever to do with when the government decided to close schools.


[ Parent ]
the problem is
right now, these issues are often stopping them from taking action to prepare properly. 



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
that might be why
A "State of Emergency" will need to be declared, in order for schools to be closed at the state level.

And people will need to be told that that is what will happen, so they can stop worrying about things like contracts and fulfilling teaching day requirements.

If a hurricane is coming and an evacuation of the city is ordered, no one worries about how the kids will get their required 50 minutes of math instruction daily during the evacuation, right?

Pandemics are "Wicked Problems". - Average Concerned Mom


[ Parent ]
true, but the question is
would they declare a state on emergency on the first case?  Remember during SARS all these different cities had exactly the same problem, the governments came under political pressure from business interests to act as if everything was ok, that it was 'business as usual'.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Contiguous is both geographical and functional
Which will be interesting to watch be interpreted. 

As an example, will cities with lots of international air travel be considered 'contiguous' with their international airport connections?

Same for domestic.

So that part of the 'contiguous' standard will need some additional detail to know how far it will extend.

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
We are...
closing when we have the first confirmed case in school :(

[ Parent ]
You mean close one school at a time or close all schools with one case any where? n/t


You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

[ Parent ]
No, she means first case in the school
ie reactive school closure. 

If you take a school with 300 kids, theoretically you need to close before you have 3 cases ie < 1%, but a more pragmatic way of thinking about it is to consider the 1% threshold as one beyond which interventions are likely to fail.  ie once you get 3 cases, you are at risk of failure.

The problem is by the time you are aware of a confirmed cases, chances are there are already a few cases that have been missed. 

Remember the doubling time is about 2-3 days, or you get about a 10-fold increase in 1 week to 10 days, the time interval between 0.1% to 1% is only just over a week.  ie In a 1000-student school environment, the interval between the first case (which you are most likely to miss!) and the point beyond which intervention is useless is just over 1 week!

Hence the need to take the trigger point to a wider geographical level, ie first cases in state.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
can you tell us
how you know that for sure?  Does the school have plans?

Thanks!



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
The only plan
I have seen is from last year. I was told that the school nurses put it together. Of course I critiqued it and sent it back and they said they would look at my recommendations at the next meeting.  I believe I had these discussions in May of 2006 and the next meeting was in Sept of 2006.  I didn't pursue it because my battle was with the town preparing and I also told the Superintendant that I would pull my child as soon as it hit the US and she said that was fine (of course she retired in May 2007!)

I also googled Nh school pandemic plan and came up with the same plan for many schools - so I don'think our school nurses did this on there own.

Here is a copy of the generic plan that the NH schools seem to be using.

http://www.goffstown...

Here is another link to "Pandemic Flu Planning Announcement".  I actually get a kick out of this one.

http://www.pelhamsd....

Since that time we have a new Emergency Manager (my friend
:(  not!) and hopefully he has tried to incorporate the school distict in his lame plans.

So yes Susan, this is the official plan as of last year.

Once school starts again I can speak to one of the nurses I am friendly with and see what she has to say about updates.


[ Parent ]
thanks!
please keep us posted.

This experience has made it even clearer to me that from this point on, much of our work will consist of meticulously documenting who is doing what and who is not doing what, if you know what I mean.

And turning up at meetings.  Like Dem said, going to meeting after meeting after meeting until you are sick of meetings, but you have to go anyway,...



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
You are doing better than we are Birdie Kate
My county health officer said that she planned to close the schools when 20% of the students were home ill.  I told her that would be way too late for me and said my son would be at home long before that point.  I said that with CFR's similar to what they are seeing now (and gave her those numbers), how could we wait that long?  She didn't answer and had a worried look on her face.

Honestly, I have a gut feeling that she hopes more parents take their kids out voluntarily so she would not have the firestorm that a decision of school closure might create.  I think it will be a CYA/self preservation motiviation that may drive some of the school closure decisions.  I foresee a lot of backlash against the health officer by businesses, city officials, parents, and possibly the teachers (if they are not paid during this time).


[ Parent ]
School closing as symptom vs tool to fight pandemic
At the core of this discussion seems to be the antique perspective that schools will close when they have to close - as a symptom of the pandemic, instead of when they should close - as one of the tools in fighting the pandemic.

They may have heard about the second perspective, but they are still operating from the first.

What efforts have we seen to educate the public (not typcially subscribing to medical journals etc) on the potential effectiveness of timely school closing as a critical element of community mitigation and on community mitigation as an effective tool in pandemic mitigation?

How can we expect school administration or educational staff to prioritize these efforts without their first understanding the need and the facts of how effective it could be?

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
ITW -- exactly!
At the core of this discussion seems to be the antique perspective that schools will close when they have to close - as a symptom of the pandemic, instead of when they should close - as one of the tools in fighting the pandemic.

I agree completely.  The benefits of closing schools and daycares at an early trigger needs to be much better understood by the stakeholders in the community who will need to bear the burden of this closure. 


Pandemics are "Wicked Problems". - Average Concerned Mom


[ Parent ]
as an example of where the focus
is still on reactive school closure, notice what is being presupposed in the 1st and 3rd questions in the following slide #23 from the slides used during the tabletop.

I had to point out that it's important to pin down who exactly is supposed to order school dismissal early enough in accordance with the CMG, whether or not a PH emergency has been declared

I'm not sure there were any takers.  ;-(



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
this is a general observation
not in reference to any particular person or agency.

I made the remark a while back, about the inherent conflicts between career civil servants and 'political' appointees (even though Rajeev Venkayya's appointment is hardly political, since he entered the White House from a fellowship program.  Nor are those others on the HSC working on pandemic policy, since they are mostly professionals eg from critical care medicine.), where the former have a great deal of faith in their ability to out-wait the latter. 

'Passive insubordination' is the phrase that comes to mind...



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


further thoughts arising from this conference
to expand on my final remarks:
With all respect to all the hard-working well-meaning creators of the CMG, including especially Dr Venkayya, my concern is that until the day every parent can stand up in public meetings and quote your document chapter and verse to hold officials accountable, we are a long way away from being able to save all those lives that the CMG in theory says we can save.

After Friday's plenary and workshop, what with the problems with the CDC presentation and the kinds of 'prime concerns' that I was observing in the workshop, I was very disillusioned and discouraged about my chances of being able to make a difference on the final day.  Cos up to that point, not only was nobody talking about CMG with any degree of commitment or understanding , I had not had a chance to speak at all.  That being the case, I had serious reservations about my ability to gain enough credibility in the tabletop exercise, since in general it gets progressively harder to get people to adopt new ideas in any conference/meeting as we head nearer the end.

In any event, as I said, I did get the chance to make some important points, and I think at least some of the ideas got through, at least for that moment. 

The question that I have, and I trust that I'm not being egotistical in thinking this way, is that what chance does a regular member of the public have, in such situations, to advocate for ideas that have not been officially expressed on the podium?  The fact is, I did have some credibility, by way of being an MD, but more importantly (I think) by the fact that I DID have a hard copy of the CMG in my possession, and I could say that I had some experience working with the issues, so I was able to at least get some attention quite readily.

If those in authority, for whatever reason, are promoting ideas that are at variance with official guidance and/or not in the interest of the public, how can any private individual muster the credibility and authority to rebut those in power?

I remember once, in the context of leadership and moral courage, I expressed the thought that tptb should keep in mind this admonition

You shall not side with the great against the powerless.

I am beginning to think that that is not enough, because it IS the natural tendency of more ordinary or mediocre mortals/officials to side with the great against the powerless, and that those at the top leadership level must help those at the very lowest end of the power hierarchy, and empower them to gain their voice.

The best defense IMO against the dilution and degradation of policies such as the CMG during implementation is public education and debate, of the issues involved, so that what the policy is or is not becomes widely known, such that those who refuse to follow best practice will have to, again publicly, justify their stance.

In other words, we need to put the onus of proof on those who OPPOSE CMG.  The scientific and strategic case for CMG had been won in Atlanta and in the publication of the policy.  Citizens should enjoy the benefits that should flow from it, rather than have to fight the case over and over again.




All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


one of the speakers at the tabletop
made the point that preparing for a pandemic will fulfill 80% of all hazards preparedness.  I followed that up with an additional point, that preparing for CMG will fulfill 80% of pandemic preparedness.

If we quit using the knee-jerk conventional 'scientific' approach of equating controlling disease outbreak with medical countermeasures such as vaccines and antivirals, and ask ourselves what tools we have in our toolbox, right now, today, that will immediately save the most number of lives, then the answer has to be the measures as outlined in the CMG.

That being the case, I would suggest that from this point on, much more resources should be invested in the promotion of CMG at the national level, directly by the Federal government to the public.  I would also suggest that the cost of such investment, measured as dollars per life saved, is likely to be a minuscule fraction of what is currently being spend on vaccines.

What is needed is political will, the courage to stand by a policy that has already been officially adopted, and to actively promote it in ways that will make it undeniable in the national consciousness, whenever and wherever the subject of pandemic arises.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Active support of CMG will get more helpful press coverage
Every time officials open their mouths at planning sessions and especially press conferences, they need to stress how important the CMGs ARE, and that they are to be used, essentially, like prescription medication is used -- for a specific purpose, in accordance with medical and  scientific knowledge; and how use of them will save lives.  This will I think get more helpful press coverage on the issue.

Just as you don't go willy-nilly giving out drugs for everyone to figure out how to dose themselves, (if you wait too late after symptoms start, some drugs will do no good at all; if used in conjuction with other drugs they may have no effect.  In the same way, implementation of NPIs like school closure need to be seen in the same way. (If you wait till too late, school closure will do no good; if kids nevertheless mix and migle with other kids, the NPI will have less effect... and so on.)

You don't ask school administrators and guidance counselors to decide when to administer medication to students to combat, say, a menigitis epidemic at a school; that is a decision to be made by those with the relevant medical knowledge.  The use of school closure as a way to prevent spread of infection is something like using medication and needs to be handled by those in public health hopefully at the state level.  (Goervnor advised by health officials).

The problem comes in the fact that up till now, every instance of school closure in recent memory has NOT been used proactively, as a type of presciption medicine, for a specific, preventative purpose.  Rather, as we all know, it has been used reactively, essentially as a result of staffing issues.  Not enough teachers and bus drivers.

(In some cases, schools do close for a few days for meningitis and other outbreaks -- I'm not sure how far this analogy applies, but you get my general point.)

So if officials are ever talking about school closures, they need to make it part and parcel of their presentation to specificy -- AGAIN and AGAIN, especially for the press -- that these school closures are for a really good reason -- and that they must be applied early to have an effect.  Just as you administer some medication early in an illness to have an effect (um... like Tamiflu?)  That the decision to close school at an early trigger is therefore really a serious, medical decision; and then they need to stress how important it is for people to wake up and truly be prepared for the consequences of this decision and this closure.

This recent article in an Alabama newspaper shows how the point was MADE that schools might have to be closed for 6 months (!!!) and yet completely lost that this would have to happen at an early trigger, and that iit would be done, not just to protect children (obviously) but to protect society as a whole.

http://www.tuscaloos...

It's just a hunch and I could be wrong, but my sense is news reporters WANT to report strong, serious information about pandemic possibilities, yet they also want to give a bit of reassuring balance to not scare people too much.  (That's only human nature.)

So they write things like "Officials hope never to have to use these plans" or "Of course we all hope it won't happen" as the balance.

Which just makes the average person say "yawn" and "Well, wake me up when you think it WILL happen."

Rather I'd like to see reporters saying, "The use of these measures may seem extreme, but officials say that closing schools at an early trigger could save millions of lives.  In order to be able to do so with a minimum of disruption to our economy, it is absolutely vital that the public prepare now for the possibiolity of school closure for 6 months."


Pandemics are "Wicked Problems". - Average Concerned Mom


long story short
When a doctor prescribes medication to a patient for a life threatening condition, she generally says what is GOOD about it first, and then gets around to the serious side effects.

School closure needs to be explained exactly the same way to the public, frequently and often.  In too many news articles at least, it is presented as a bad thing, a bad consequence.  "This pandemic could be so bad, we may even have to (shudder) close the schools for a while."

Officials need to focus at first, and often, on the GOOD reasons for it.  "We will prescribe school closure, other social distancing, for a purpose, and a darn good one.  School closure is a GOOD thing.  (And yes, it has bad side effects which we need to work now on mitigating.)"

But if you only focus on a drug's bad side effects, who on earth would be willing to take the drug?

Pandemics are "Wicked Problems". - Average Concerned Mom


[ Parent ]
I like what you said!
Officials need to focus at first, and often, on the GOOD reasons for it.  "We will prescribe school closure, other social distancing, for a purpose, and a darn good one.  School closure is a GOOD thing.  (And yes, it has bad side effects which we need to work now on mitigating.)"

But if you only focus on a drug's bad side effects, who on earth would be willing to take the drug?





All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
CMG is a bitter pill.
It should be taken. Sure it will be better if it can be sugar coated to make it easier to swallow.

What you don't do is to tell people to take candies instead.


You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


[ Parent ]
I think you are right
about the need to remove the 'reassuring balance' just so people will get the message.  OTOH, I have a real problem with the 6 months message, because a) that is not the plan, and b) it will distract from the most important point, which is EARLY.

I think most reporters cannot put out more than 2 or 3 points max in any news article, and probably only 1 if it is a major paradigm-changing one, such as proactive early school dismissal to save lives, so you have to pick your message very carefully.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
important lessons on school closure from 1918
The following chart is from the newly published paper in JAMA
Nonpharmaceutical Interventions Implemented by US Cities During the 1918-1919 Influenza Pandemic
Markel et al.


(Click to enlarge)

Several things that I'd like to point out:

  1. Notice how early St Louis closed schools, followed by Denver.  Even though Pittsburgh did close schools in the end, the epidemic has already gone out of control.

  2. Notice how for both St Louis and Denver, when they lifted the interventions, the epidemic came back.  when they reapplied the interventions, because the epidemic size was much bigger than the first time the interventions were applied, the second period of implementation was much less effective. 

  3. Even though New York City imposed measures very early, because they did not close schools nor ban public gatherings, and mainly relied on quarantine, isolation, staggered business hours, and signs such as 'cover your cough', they had a very rapid rise in cases and high peak attack rates.

  4. Despite that, NYC still had a lower total excess deaths than Denver.  The difference in first implementation of measures between these 2 cities were 20 days (PH response time, defined as days between 2x baseline death rates and first NPI, was -11d for NYC and +9d for Denver). 

  5. The same can be said about NYC and Pittsburgh.  The lesson here is the most important one in the current discussion, IMO.  That late implementation of measures, including reactive school closure is NOT effective in reducing disease and death.



    All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


who will educate the educators?
Thanks for going, SusanC. Uphill battle against all the slightly untrue stuff public health and officials have been saying (or information they have left unsaid) the past 22 months for everyone to still be so clueless (comes of saying "flu" and "wash your hands" is how to keep from getting airborne pandemic "flu", all that time instead of saying, "The virus which caused this alert, with 60% to 80% fatality rate, may go pandemic-contagious at any time, and if we don't do something pratical now, we will have a depopulating event"?)

Would they think their own remarks and questions would sound ludicrous, if they had been told, The govt has been aware of the threat and preparing for years because nuclear attacks will start - it is a matter of when not if?
Impact by the catastrophe is (obviously) not optional, and we're supposed to be planning how to get our community through this; mitigate impact and save as many lives as possible, long-term? Educate to avoid panic but to be able to meet the challenge intelligently, and save lives in the school communities.

As in: The govt says, multiple terrorist dirty bomb strikes in the US are a matter of when not if; these conference-goers first thoughts are, "Why do we have to prepare for this", "Who will keep our paychecks coming?", "We plan to close the schools if 10% of our population is absent as a result of the dirty bomb attacks."

If conferences, planning meetings, lectures, would start with

asking the audience how long they could stay home and survive if they woke up in a quarantine zone tomorrow, and pandemic was going to disrupt production and distribution for the next 6 months or more,  (and there certainly won't be any vaccine in that time),

and show them the past h-h or h-h-h clusters/dates, and ask how prepared they were then,

show the ages and outcomes H5N1 graph,

show the list of mammal species, (and dates they knew about that) and Dr.Webster's opinion of H5N1's virulence,

that pandemics last 1 to 3 years, the CBO said waves might last 3 to 5 months, with the next wave 1 to 3 months after,

the long-ago warnings Dr.Osterholm has given Congress about JIT failing, and recent "Still Unprepared" comments,

and, that the UN handbook says they expect total infrastructure collapse at even 1% cfr,

and read the Homeland Security "Best Practices" thinking it would prevent infections and deaths to have the public self-quarantine for up to 90 days per wave,

then, (maybe,) some productive actions would ensue.

(Maybe a huge dated photo on the wall of the latest H5N1 death, or US/Australia pediatric flu death, would cut the, "this is all hypothetical; for some checklist", attitudes.

Maybe mental health ought to come talk about normal adjustment reactions; the UN handbook said, just the fact these plans are made will cause some reactions that need to be addressed. (Denial/avoidance isn't helping, surely.)


yes and no
I agree that it is important that they get the correct information, but I'm not sure that even better threat awareness achieved in a single meeting is enough to get them to take actions that involve so much extra work and stepping out of their collective institutional comfort zone.

Several lessons to bear in mind, from my observations in this conference:

  • The keynote speech by Venkayya did, as I said, very specifically bring up the most pertinent points for pandemic risk, for a 20 minute speech.  As I said, people were really shocked with the information given; there were gasps around the room, and a lot of note-taking.  That's why I thought the next day was going to go a lot better than it eventually turned out.  So the obvious lesson is, 'getting it' at that level and only as a one-time message was not enough

  • Even if people 'got' the scale of the danger, that information needs to be followed soon thereafter with information about what to do about the danger that is consistent with the severity.  So if they got the message about child deaths and CFRs the first day, they would have been perfectly open to ideas about how to mitigate THIS level of risk ie 2 decades of child mortality in one season. 

  • If the speakers on the second day didn't give them any more than what appeared to be similar to regular flu-season school closure, 2 things happen:

    1. they start discounting or negating the danger signals they got the day before, because now, unconsciously, the message appears to be 'business as usual', in the sense that the essence of what they were being asked to do for school closure was not fundamentally different from normal, the difference was only in duration and extent.

    2. the desire to find out more about pandemics in general, for themselves and their families, that would have been triggered the day before now dies down, because again unconsciously what they are hearing was not "this is really serious" but rather "this is just more of the same"

  • In this conference, there were several sources of information for the participants.  Although the keynote speech from Venkayya was important, he is more likely to be perceived as 'someone from the White House' ie from the POV of department of education staff, he belonged to the 'political' hierarchy (even though as I said his appointment had more to do with his professional abilities than political affiliation), and not 'one of us'. 

  • If public health professionals, in the form of CDC, were perceived (correctly) as credible sources of scientific information and public health advice, and federal officials from the Department of Education were perceived as either 'one of us' or 'where my funding is going to come from', when it gets to implementation, when people are instinctively and habitually looking for the easiest way out, then it's always going to be whoever has the most direct authority and control over their actions that will drive their activities! 

  • That being the case,if PH and DOE are not doing their jobs properly, then policies are dead in the water even before they start!
Put it in another way, political will from the top is not enough for implementation on the ground, because they are dependent on the cooperation of the many layers of bureaucracy of the civil service. 

What is needed to drive implementation at the community level is far more immediate pain or reward, closer to home, and that's only going to happen if citizens are informed and motivated to inflict such pain or provide such reward at the community level!

Going back to the national level, this issue of inconsistenct and/or conflicting signals is IMHO currently edging close to a make-or-break point. 

My concern is, to the extent that at the federal level, just about the only official who is talking about 60% CFR and certainly using the 2 decades of child mortality information or slide is Venkayya, that the Feds haven't or are unable to get sufficient alignment in their own threat awareness and/or political will to get such kinds of information out to the public.  I'm not privy to information that will help answer the question, but I do seriously worry that he may be in a very small minority in either holding such POV or being willing to promote or communicate them!

If that is the case, we are in serious trouble.  How much can one person do, however highly motivated or highly placed they are?

The other people who could have (and still can) bring an adequate level of threat awareness to the public are the Secretary of HHS, the Surgeon General, the head of the CDC, and, in this context, the Secretary of Education and more specifically, the head of the Safe and Drugs Free Schools office.  (One would also include DHS and FEMA were it not for the ongoing problems in those agencies... )

I'm not sure that I'm seeing any significant level of commitment to pandemic preparedness in some of these officials, and certainly in most instances nowhere near sufficient commitment to either promoting pandemic threat awareness or to holding local officials accountable for their actions.

Or, one could go in the other direction, upwards, to Fran Townsend, Homeland Security Advisor.  Her office (and almost certainly she herself) is of course behind the policies and viewpoints as expressed by Venkayya, but it may be necessary to bring forth a more visible degree of endorsement and publicity if they don't want their policy to become, as us Brit's would say, a bit of a damp squid!



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Turn the charts into numbers of children saved.
The charts are dramatic.

But how many children will be saved (or lost) depending on when schools close?

Take an average size town, or school and talk about what the numbers from 1918 would mean.

I don't think the "guidance" is being represented as or understood as official 'policy'. 
 

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
that is precisely the problem
I don't think the "guidance" is being represented as or understood as official 'policy'.

Between ignorance, misrepresentations (willful or otherwise), miscommunications, and lack of media interest, by the time the 'policy' gets to the 'retail' level, ie in the community, my concern is the overall outcome for the whole country is going to be at best very patchy.

Venkayya did say, in his speech in the PHEMC workshop, that it's time to focus their attention on implementation.  I don't know what kind of 'guidance' they are preparing for communities or personal preparedness, but as this CMG story tells us, guidances are no better than the paper they are written on if those who are supposed to receive such guidances, for whatever reason, fail to 'get it'!

They may need to focus their attention not just on development of guidances, but on how the federal government can take a more proactive role in promoting what they call, in the Katrina report, 'a culture of preparedness'.  This again goes back to the 'pull' vs 'push' issue - making information (and maybe resources) available as needed vs actively promoting their use irrespective of whether the need has been perceived at the local community level. 

Our major problem is complacency, but it is also related to lack of threat awareness as well.  How far can the federal government actively lead in promoting such threat awareness without risking political backlash (in the form of accusations of 'crying wolf' or worse), whether they have the political will to take on such a task, and what context can they most successfully do it in, are probably the critical questions for the next few months.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Implimentation - great word to hear!!!
SusanC,

  I am so glad to hear the word "Implimentation" as that will make people change.

  Change enough is hard to tell.

  I also hope it helps work out the bugs and show the things that have been missed.

  BTW - A big thank you to everyone who has posted. The information I have learned here has helped outhers. Everything form Food bank prep to counting calories to pharmacy preps.

KObie


[ Parent ]
The threat and defenses must balance.
Our major problem is complacency, but it is also related to lack of threat awareness as well.  How far can the federal government actively lead in promoting such threat awareness without risking political backlash (in the form of accusations of 'crying wolf' or worse), whether they have the political will to take on such a task, and what context can they most successfully do it in, are probably the critical questions for the next few months.

If they are not willing to honestly and frankly portray the magnitude of the threat, how can they convince people to undertake the committment and sacrifice required to prepare for and implement the critical actions necessary to fight the pandemic?

In the same way, if they are only willing to ask people to undertake painless preparation (wash your hands and cough into your sleeve) how can they convince the public of the true magnitude of the pandemic threat to individuals and societies?

The threat and proposed defenses must be in reasonable balance or the public will never believe the threat or be willing to bear the burden of the defenses.

The concept is not new, it just needs to be applied in the context of a pandemic threat and preparation.

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
no of lives saved, from 1918
To get an idea of potential number of lives saved, all you need to do is to look at the data from 1918.  I've rearranged the charts to more clearly demonstrate the effect of EARLY school closure in 1918 in St Louis, vs what happened in Pittsburgh.

The difference in time between St Louis and Pittsburgh for the start of any intervention was only 6 days.  But because Pittsburgh did not close schools to start with, notice how the epidemic picked up speed very quickly.  When they finally closed schools it was 3 weeks later than St Louis (in relation to the 2x baseline mortality date).  The total excess death rate was 807/100,000 vs 358/100,000.




All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
4459 Lives In City or County of 1 Million
In a city or county of 1 million people*:

Doing it right:  3580

Doing it wrong:  8070

Lives in the balance:  4490

If 50% below 18:  2245 kids lives in the balance.

Now, what kind of community mitigation are you willing to do?

*Based on the difference in total excess death rate between St Louis and Pittsburgh in 1918. 

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
Here's an example of reactive school closure
From the CMG, 3 key points to keep in mind, for this discussion:

  1. In a pandemic, typically the cases double every 2-3 days.

  2. The number of infections (or attack rate AR) increase 10-fold in 7-10 days, depending on the transmission characteristics of the virus in that population.

  3. In order to save lives, CMG measures need to be implemented before the AR reaches 1%

In October 06, Yancey county, NC experienced an outbreak of influenza B which eventually necessitated school closure.  The subsequent investigation resulted in the information presented in these slides.

Here's an overview of the demographics of the community and some information on how the outbreak unfolded.

I'm going to use this example to work out backwards what these numbers mean in a pandemic. 

  1. In a pandemic, the number of cases typically double every 2-3 days, which is clearly illustrated in the Yancey county outbreak.  The time interval between 20% to 40% absenteeism in the 2 elementary schools was only 2 days!

  2. Working it out backwards, with 40% absenteeism on Nov 1, 20% absenteeism on Oct 30th, you can extrapolate and get 10% absenteeism on Oct 28th.

  3. For kids to become absent in school, they would already have been sick for maybe a day or so.  Hence the absenteeism rate lags behind the actual infection rate.

  4. Some kids may still be going to school even after they are ill.

  5. We need to factor in additional time delay at the county public health level, for all the absenteeism data to be collected and tallied, and for officials to sit up and take notice. 

  6. All these added together mean that it is likely that absenteeism numbers are close to 1 doubling time behind the real infection rates.  ie when you get reports of 20% absenteeism, there may be as much as 30 - 40% kids infected already!

  7. That being the case, we could say on Oct 26th, when the first 3 cases in kids were confirmed, it was likely that in the 2 elementary schools, the AR was close to 10% already.

  8. In order for school closure to make a difference to outcome, they would need to have closed the schools before 1% infection, somewhere between 7-10 days before 10% AR, or around Oct 16th-19th or before, long before the first cases among kids in that county was identified.

  9. For an unmitigated Category 5 or 1918-like pandemic of 40% AR and 2% CFR, the number of school-aged deaths in Yancey county would have been around 20.

  10. In 1918, the difference in total excess mortality between St Louis and Pittsburgh, as explored above http://www.newfluwik... was 358 vs 807/100,000, or a 55% reduction in number of deaths for the whole course of the pandemic wave.  (This is a conservative estimate, as St Louis lifted the interventions and had to reapply them after the number of cases shot up.  I would say the reduction could have been even higher if the measures were maintained continuously for 12 weeks as suggested by the CMG.)

  11. Using the conservative estimate of 55% reduction in deaths, for Yancey county, this would have translated to 11 lives saved.

  12. In order to do that, they would have had to close schools when cases start anywhere appearing in North Carolina, or in adjacent states.  Long before cases appear in their own school system!

Every now and then, the whole world watches in anxiety when a young life is in danger, eg when a kid falls into a well, and we all breath a sigh of relief when the child is eventually rescued. 

How much would a community like Yancey county, or your community, be willing to pay, how far are YOU willing to go to save the life of 1 child, let alone 11 children?




All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
here's my question
If you are a teacher or a community leader in a county like Yancey county, can you imagine how much heartbreak there is in burying 9 children over the course of 3 months? 

Can you stand burying 20 instead, knowing you could have saved 11 of them?





All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
economic costs from absenteeism
There are those who argue against EARLY school dismissal as being unnecessarily disruptive to society, specifically in how it might impact worker absenteeism and therefore economic losses.  Notice they are NOT arguing against school closure per se, acknowledging that it is inevitable in a pandemic, but rather building a hypothetical case of PH measures doing more harm than the pandemic itself, or at least earlier than is necessary.  Let's examine this notion in this example here.

In the event, Yancey county closed schools on Nov 1st, at an absenteeism rate of 40%.  Advocates of 'reactive' school closure generally suggest closing at 10% absenteeism, which would have put us at around Oct 28th.

There is a difference of 12 days between reactive school closure on Oct 28th and proactive early school dismissal on let's say Oct 16th.  Taking away weekends when someone have to look after the kids away, this means probably an additional 8-9 working days of absenteeism affecting the economy.

In a pandemic that is going to spread around the world causing major outbreaks in every country simultaneously and/or one after another for 6 months or more, in the current globalized economy, how much net effect would 9 days of absenteeism have on the overall economic impact of a pandemic, assuming everything else being equal?

Everything else, of course, is never equal. 

If, instead of taking adequate proactive measures to protect their citizenship, leaders take actions showing they are more concerned about the economy than children's lives, how well do you think people would react?  How well would they trust their leaders? 

How soon would it be before people decide that their best course of action is to trust no one but themselves, and take extreme avoidance and hording measures to the detriment of society as a whole?





All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
And how about if the collateral effects of community mitigation cost lives?
One factor to consider is that disruption of 'busiess as usual' may cost more than business income.

It may, at some point, cost lives. 

But of course, since we know that - we could plan for it, prepare for it and mitigate or avoid it.

We know how to avoid these deaths.  The question is whether we are willing to do so.

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
but community mitigation measures themselves
reduce economic loss, even at moderate compliance, as shown in this chart





All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
missed out one important official
RADM Vanderwagen, the new ASPR (Assistant Secy of Preparedness Response).  http://www.hhs.gov/a...

Let's see how well he can rise to the challenge!



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
data
who gives me the data (mortality,morbidity of
pneumonia/influenca) or total deaths weekly for several
US-towns in computer-readable form
can get the statistical analysis.

is the Gunnison example repeatable for more cities,
if the CFR is high ?

ask experts for their subjective
panflu death expectation values
and report the replies


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