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New Rumors XIV

by: MaMa

Sat Nov 25, 2006 at 14:18:27 PM EST


This Diary (thread) is a continuation of New Rumors XIV, previous posts can be found on the old forum here
MaMa :: New Rumors XIV
If anyone would prefer that the posts on 'Old Yeller' be copied here so you don't have to go back and forth for reference on this thread just ask- I'll be happy to do it!

Previous thread links

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New Rumors XIV | 216 comments
So happy to see my PPF & Rumours Diaries here. I've added them to my Hot List....(press the blue plus sign)


I am not like other birds of prey....

C'mon Folks, We Need Some More Rumors
Nothing like a juicy rumor or too to get people over here, posting a reading away, and familiar with the new site.

So what happened with all these medical people getting wind of some Big Announcement?  the timeline was -- after election day?  After Thanksgiving?  Now people are saying ... After Christmas?  Let's hear it for some more information!

GetPandemicReady.org - non commerical website with practical ways for families to prepare.


Ah, so I am not the only one
waiting on the "blinding light" that we were 'promised' ....

Eat pudding first - who know's what might happen next! - Anon

[ Parent ]
uh...
... who promised that, anyway?

[ Parent ]
suggest you revisit
the original Egypt thread ... not going there ;-)

Eat pudding first - who know's what might happen next! - Anon

[ Parent ]
Niman's blinding light
Niman confirmed on CurEvents.com that his promised "blinding light" refered to the recently released sequence showing that the Egyptian mutation now matches receptor sites with the human influenza B, which makes a human pandemic much more likely. At least, that is what I think he said - Niman is always so cryptic. Section copied below:

"11-15-2006,  03:37 PM 
niman 
Valued Member

  Join Date: Feb 2005 
Posts: 4,673 

  Changes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukmum
Dr Niman, I think I understand that this is very bad news but for us lay people please could you explain why the fatality rate will remain high and in your view what change is needed now to make this go pandemic? I appreciate your input.

I haven't read the Nature report, which will be out in a few hours. However, the commentaries I posted today at recombinomics shows that the H5N1 in the Egyptian patient has acquired a change that matchs human sequences adjacent to the receptor binding domain. Data is also presented that the two key changes that WHO was looking for, really are not required (which it sounds like is further reported by the upcominbg paper.

Thus, H5N1 has already become quite human-like, and several changes, like 182 and 192 can improve binding. WHO was focused on 226 and 228, but they really are already "human" based on infleunza B sequence (and 1957 human H2N2 sequence).

Since only one or two changes are required, there is no reason to expect the fatality rate to decline if just a few changes are made.
niman
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  #10  11-15-2006,  03:38 PM 
niman 
Valued Member

  Join Date: Feb 2005 
Posts: 4,673 

  Infleunza B RBD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exodia
Is this the news you were hinting at on the other thread?

Yes, H5N1 is making quite a bit of progress (and doesn't read press releases)."


[ Parent ]
RE: Need more rumors
Just for fun, I put "influenza rumor" into my favorite meta search engine (Copernic Agent).
The first item returned was from the CDC; an article in which they praised themselves for handling rumors during the 2004 H5N1 outbreak (http://www.cdc.gov/n...).
The second-ranked item was the "Rumor" thread at fluwiki [grin].

[ Parent ]
patted themselves on the back?!
..."An important part of rumor surveillance is the timely dissemination of accurate information to reduce misunderstanding and unwarranted concern, especially for rumors reported in the media. One example was the need to address the international concern that arose about the rumor that pigs were infected with avian influenza (13). If the rumor had not been reported to be incorrect publicly after the verification process, health authorities may have heightened avian influenza surveillance to include the investigation of persons with symptoms of influenza and a history of contact with pigs."...

And the problem with that would have been, what?


[ Parent ]
we're still having trouble getting data
on folks exposed to birds and humans. Too much to do, not enough hands.

That's the only down side I can see.


[ Parent ]
that's amazing
The second-ranked item was the "Rumor" thread at fluwiki

Maybe we should do search and bump it up to top eh?  Just kidding...lol



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
that's called google-bombing
and political site do it frequently.

[ Parent ]
Actually, on Google, we are #1
At least, fluwikie was the first site returned when I searched using Google just now. Second was a site belonging to Harris County, TX. Third was an FDA site, quoting the same FDA/CDC article that I found as #1 using Copernic Agent.
I usually don't use Google, preferring the results from 16 different search engines that I get with Copernic Agent (and Google isn't one of the 16).

[ Parent ]
it is, you're right! n/t




All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
rumorless
Sorry, not even a dead bird in my yard.  Or any activity at all at the ANG base. They all must be laying around sleeping off the turkey! :-)

[ Parent ]
Blinding light
I believe someone hit the dimmer switch. Cmon guys we need some good juicy rumors we can sink our hive teeth into

well, this is a holiday still
in the US. It's a relatively slow week for news.

[ Parent ]
Webster's length of prep
A comment on today's Effect Measure blog--by Undar, I think--noted that Dr. Webster is now prepping for 6 months rather than just 3. Does anyone know this for a fact?

here's the quote
http://scienceblogs....

it was from a 'local talk' that Webster gave.


[ Parent ]
It sounds as if Webster is just like many others -
Once you start prepping, you just keep going and adding even more supplies.

[ Parent ]
Webster's prep
To take this from "hearsay" to fact...which "local" talk?

you can post on EM and ask...
..because I don't know any more than that. M. Randolph Kruger (the poster) may tell you more.

Besides, you're in Rumors. Hearsay is next door, Fact is down the hall..


[ Parent ]
Wondering
does anyone remember when the "10 day" announcement was supposed to be?

Still getting my toes wet
Where is the PPF page?
It's not showing up on the diary section.

On the Fence and Leaning
here it is
http://www.newfluwik...

Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little- Edmund Burke

[ Parent ]
on the fence noted an interesting facet
We mods and deputies should create all posts as an 'on the side' Diary, and then move to the front page. That way, it appears in the Recent Diaries box, etc, for those who use that as a navigation tool.

We should do that as often as possible for the diaries the readers will look for.


[ Parent ]
will do n/t


Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little- Edmund Burke

[ Parent ]
Grazie
thanks MaMa.
I'm getting there....

[ Parent ]
you're very welcome
...and you're doing great!

Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little- Edmund Burke

[ Parent ]
Sorry, On the Fence and Leaning
n/t generally means that there are no comments in the post. The responder simply typed their short comment in the Subject line and clicked Post

[ Parent ]
Thanks BB
Are you VA now?  Weren't you relocating a few weeks ago?

[ Parent ]
Re: Are you VA now?
Yep...got here at 3:45PM on Sept. 30, after leaving FresNo, CA at 5:30 am on Sept. 27. Man, that was a fast drive. Almost literally, coast-to-coast!

[ Parent ]
n/t stands for No Text
and refers to the fact that the person puts everything they want to say in the subject area and, therefore, has no text in the comment area.

I learned that a few days ago when I was 'fascinated' by it - turns out to be another one of those 'internet savvy' shorthand thingies ;-)

It is the equivalent of "EOM" in an email message e.g. email subject is "Team Meeting Today is Cancelled EOM" - (apparently) we then know that there is no further information inside the email.

Eat pudding first - who know's what might happen next! - Anon


[ Parent ]
I would like to see what people on the other forum are saying.
It does get confusing going between two sites.  I always come here first now, because I can automatically see responses to my comments.  I do miss the 'bumping' because you could see where everyone was "hanging out" at the time.  Still, I like not having any spam.  OK, I'm getting off topic; just wanted to say I appreciated the offer of copying over to here what they're saying over there.

if it's topic-related
eg, news, it can go in news, or rumors here to rumors.

if it's site related, it can go in the commmunity sandbox.


[ Parent ]
I miss bumping too
I know what you mean.  I enjoyed reading the various posts that I often didn't post to because I didn't feel I knew enough to respond.  The bumps let me know what was big for the day.  I do like checking here to see if someone has replied to what I wrote but I worry I may be missing something important somewhere else. 
I have to admit, I like this site 200% better today than I did 3-4 days ago.  If laptops were free, this one would have been smashed to bits.

[ Parent ]
don't worry
I have to admit, I like this site 200% better today than I did 3-4 days ago.

I won't tell anyone.  ;-)


[ Parent ]
I can move the posts from
the old rumors thread this one was born from. No trouble at all.

I can move comments here every few days or so if that's what you guys want, most of the time anyway, sometimes I'm away for work- in which case someone else could move them if they'd like. Will that work, or will that make the conversation(s) too disjointed? What's the best way to approach this?

Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little- Edmund Burke


[ Parent ]
You know, I'm not sure.
It may be too disjointed.  If you decide not to do it, that's fine.  I hope more people will come over from the old Forum to contribute here.  I barely said anything over at the other place but find that for some reason I post more over here.  I do hope we grow.  I wonder how many people come here regularly now.

[ Parent ]
The best way to handle it IMO...
...is for everyone to post over here in the first place. It's easier to post over here anyway. Now if we can just get everyone to have the same opinion. ;-)

[ Parent ]
Can we maybe occassionally start a thread
over at the Yellow Forum that links back to some of the great stuff here, such as Lisa the GP's "Reasons to get a Flu Shot" which Northstar inspired? ...I was thinking of posting a thread about my hesitations whether to keep my Nov 28 booked appointment for my shot and after reading Lisa's diary, had extra food for thought, so to speak. And was just wondering if others felt the same about getting their shots.

Perhaps some links to Recommended Diaries would encourage folks venture into this great diaries here.


[ Parent ]
oops..
arg...should have read: "would encourage folks TO venture into  THE great diaries here."  Sorry.

[ Parent ]
bluesfan
anybody who wants to start a diary/thread either here or on the yellow forum is free to do so.

I think it's a great idea!

Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little- Edmund Burke


[ Parent ]
ok guys
however you think is best.

IMO, I think it would be a bit choppy to move them here and stick them in the middle of the diary/thread/whatever you want to call it:-)

I don't know how many are posting here regularly either Karina, but the site meter on the main page, near the top on the right, tells us how many 'hits' we've had. That gives us some info. I'm sure we'll grow.

bgw in MT, Oh ya:-)

but IMO whatever can be done to help people make the transition should be done, within reason:-), and so....that's why I asked.

Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little- Edmund Burke


[ Parent ]
choppy and..
I don't mind about the choppy part, but it is frustrating to see great comments or posts that we cannot reply to easily because they are trapped in the boxed summaries. It's only been a few days, though, so hopefully more people will be migrating over here soon.

[ Parent ]
that's how fast it happens Pixie
'it is frustrating to see great comments or posts that we cannot reply to easily because they are trapped in the boxed summaries'

I couldn't agree more and yet just a little over a week ago that's the only way we could reply to any post- starting off, so-and-so at 12:12 and then speaking our piece.

It's a wonderful and amazing sight to see how fast we are all getting used to things here:-)

Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little- Edmund Burke


[ Parent ]
be warned
having a real conversation can be addicting.

[ Parent ]
ya think? :-) n/t


Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little- Edmund Burke

[ Parent ]
replying
What I don't like is when the replies get all skinny.  I'm working on figuring out this new site.  If only it had a green background, though...

[ Parent ]
people coming over
It will reach a point, to where people are going to have to make a decision about this. As much as I wanted to say at the other site, and just avoid this one altogether, it became apparent that I was going to have to make up my mind, because all the good stuff was being moved to here.
I can not believe how resistant to change people are. I resist change when it comes to certain things, but this is quiet different.  I hope those still undecided, or unwilling, will think again, and realize just how much they are needed, and it is well worth the time to learn.

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


i can't deliver that message...
but you can. Not because 'I sent you' but because you think so.

[ Parent ]
I also can't say
when 'that point' is. Think of how few day it's been!

[ Parent ]
RE: people coming over
I guess I'll just have to keep doing what MaMa, and others are doing; telling them to keep trying.  And I guess this has been a good learning thing for me, as well, in the department of frustration. Frustration can be an obstacle in growing.
Perhaps I can be the wiki poster child; If I can do it, you can too.

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


Checkpoints being checked out?
Ok, I guess I will probably start a rumour with this, but it is based upon what I saw today, so here goes. 

I live near one of the major rivers in Oklahoma.  This river has a limited number of bridges which cross it, and would be one of several superb naturally occuring geographical features useful in limiting transportation across the state during a severe pandemic.  As you cross this bridge near my home and go up out of the river bottom you come to an intersection where one highway crosses another.  Neither of these highways receive heavy traffic, but one of them could be characterized as moderate (according to Oklahoma standards).  This intersection is several miles from the nearest town.  Today as I went through this intersection I saw a military humvee sitting off to the side.  Just sitting there, like they were watching traffic.  Now in all likelyhood they were just sitting there making a cell phone call or waiting for another vehicle to catch up or meet them there.  But, part of me, the jumpy part, wondered if they were checking out the lay of the land around future checkpoints.  No telling why they were there, but it gave me a funny feeling seeing them sitting there.  Some time ago I reviewed the areas where I would set up checkpoints if I was one of the powers that be.  This bridge and intersection was one of the places I identified.

Now, before anybody flames me for reporting a humvee sitting at an intersection, let me flame myself...(flame thrower lit)...it was one humvee at an intersection, nothing to see here, move along... (flame thrower off).

Ok, now that is through and done with, has anyone else seen military vehicles sitting at some of these geographically important checkpoints such as bridges over major rivers, mountain passes, causeways...etc?  Just curious;-)


Could have offered them a jumper cable LOL n/t


You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

[ Parent ]
We live in a medium size town
that has only 3 main roads in or out. Each of these could be closed off and no one could get around the closures if they were done in the right places (also bridges). If I know this, surely the PTB must know this too.

We also live within one tank of a metropolis. If a pandemic happens, I sure as heck hope someone shuts off traffic at least from that direction. But they probably wont until we are over-run.


[ Parent ]
They'll be stuck on the highway
If your one tank away from the metropolis and they all leave at the same time they'll be living out of their cars on the highway. I guess that will make them their own blockade. 

Did anyone see the traffic this weekend?  We were moving at a fast snails pace through Chicago but the other side was clogged up for miles and miles and miles. I would suspect it was as bad around the rest of the country?

Not silver or sage, just a blend of colors!


[ Parent ]
I think you're right.
The fleeing masses from the big city will make their own road block. Add to the sheer numbers, the cars that break down or run out of gas, the roads will be totally blocked quickly. That would only leave foot-traffic, and with no easy water along the way, that would make walking 50 or more miles very difficult.

Someone at CE posted photos of the traffic leaving a metropolis preceding hurricane Rita and it was sobering.


[ Parent ]
Water is the new oil: CIBC
http://www.theglobea...

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

Whole floor being moved to another hospital
Shands is the largest hospital perhaps in North America. Anyway...the rumour.

The night she brought her son to the ER, there was a huge amount of people running around the hospital. She asked what was happening. She said "the Adminatrator of the hospital" told her the whole childrens floor was being moved to another hospital by morning. She asked "why?". She was told it was preperation for a pandemic.

Now.....I have known this mother for about two years, she has a BA, and is finishing her Masters. She aint stupid. Yea, its a rumour. 

Now I picked this up at CE


Shands reolcation
It sounds like the Shands Hospital pediatric relocation was planned.  This press release says they announced the plan for this relocation and expansion in May, and it was recently completed.  The vacated space (32 beds are mentioned in other reports) their press release says "will be used to expand other clinical services."  Hypothetically, that means the space could utilized during a pandemic, though Shands does not discuss this in any of its press releases. https://www.shands.o...

[ Parent ]
Leavitt said, last Dec. all the states would get summits
I hope they actually are making plans that would be useful in a pandemic, (what about the maternity cases) but, unless the public is let in on the problem now, and prepares, I don't see anything helping much.

[ Parent ]
possible human H5N1 case in quebec
This is a part of an email I just got from a trusted source. It is unconfirmed, and I can't cite the source, but I think it belongs on this thread as a heads up.

there are unconfirmed
reports of High Path H5N1 in Quebec City Canada's Rimouski hospital. The
case is a 9 year old with pneumonia, not on a ventilator (yet) and his
parents that are conveniently isolated and havent been told of their
childs condition other than he is one sick monkey. The infection vector
MIGHT be thru Bonaventure Island which is a national sea and migratory
waterfowl reserve. Nothing else is known at this time.


Always have a plan B.


Any idea of symptomatic date and waterfowl contact date? n/t


You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

[ Parent ]
Symptomatic and contact dates, once known, will tell us how
effective are surveillance and containment procedures, in Quebec.

The good news is Canada already prescribes Tamiflu or Relenza for seasonal flu cases.

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


[ Parent ]
RE: H5N1 in Quebec
Boy you people know how to put a person on the edge of her seat!
Mary- Please keep us updated.  This is of particular interest to me, because I'm really not that far from Quebec. I know when SARS hit, we were anxious, and started thinking of what to do if it hit our area.  We were thinking people would bring arcoss the border and the Candians shop in our area.  I hope you post back and say "false alarm."

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


[ Parent ]
no more data...time to search
Sorry, like I said, this was just a personal email from someone in a position to have inside scoop on such things. He sent it to me as a heads up from a friend. I passed it on to you verbatim. I am not likely to get more information from this person, but if I do I will certainly pass it on. I don't know if there is a way to check with the hospital itself, but if you are local you might give that a try.

Always have a plan B.

[ Parent ]
Rimouski - child with HP H5N1
Let me see what I can find out - probably not much in terms of fact but I can find some background data which may help shed some light on this.

[ Parent ]
welcome CanadaSue
nice to see you drop by.

[ Parent ]
Hospital in Rimouski
There's L'Hôpital régional du CSSS de Rimouski-Neigette >>

http://www.chrr.qc.c...

Proud FAF-er.


[ Parent ]
C. difficile may have killed 2000 in Quebec: study
http://www.cmaj.ca/c...

Don't know how good are those hospitals. Rimouski is a regional hospital.

This continued into 2005, in smaller numbers.

Would this add oil to fire during a pandemic?

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


[ Parent ]
No . . .
I think in event of pandemic conditions, that would be so insignificant as not to even feed the flames - the fire would be so hot it wouldn't matter.

[ Parent ]
One two punch? Or Quebec hospitals accustomed to highly
infectious diseases?

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

[ Parent ]
you are so right about that! n/t




All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Nice you see you CS
I am enjoying exploring the new format here...

Tell the truth

[ Parent ]
Hi CSue
Nice to run into you again after so long!

Rose from Y2k group

=^..^=


[ Parent ]
Niman adds to rumor
There is a very brief mention of this possible H5N1 case on the recombinomics site this morning, along with data regarding H5N1 cases in birds in eastern Canada.

http://www.recombino...

of course there's always the  caveat that Henry's sources are just richochets off the rumor i posted from one original.

Always have a plan B.


[ Parent ]
Rumor denied in the news thread.
Mary had one trusted source - or a friend played a joke on her.

But then Dr. Niman said he had  multiple independent sources. Let me guess: FW, CE, and FT.

Is this Canadian Dog Eats Homework all over again?

Or

Is it some one fermenting moonshine?

The real question is:

Who stands to benefit from starting the rumor?

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


[ Parent ]
Anon NYZ....I was quite clear
that this was just a rumour when I first posted it. I said it was an unconfirmed email from someone I had reason to trust and I was just passing the info along as something one might want to look into.  I certainly had nothing to gain by spreading this rumour, nor do I imagine my friend did. If he made a mistake, I'm pretty sure it was an honest one. Whoever his source was, and what the motivation, I have no idea. But I really can't imagine anyone gaining anything from this. Can you?

I even warned, when later posting the initial response from Niman about this purported case in Quebec, that he might well have gotten this info on the richochet from my original rumour post.

What has happened since is very revealing, I think.
  A. It shows that in the absence of information people get very nervous and tend to latch on and over react to anything that seems to fill that informational void.
B. It shows that reporters are getting their heads up from the internet bloggers rather than vise versa...possibly due to A above ( a clamp down on news about H5N1, or simply none to report) and C. Pretty much no one here trusts the government authorities or their news media to keep us up to date and truthfully informed.

Is this mass paranoia, or do we just know - from instinct and evidence - that we are being misled on the matter of the current pandemic phase (among other things) either by omission of truth or commission of lies?  This blog is not made up of a bunch of hysterics or uninformed/uneducated people: on the contrary. So I go with the latter.

Always have a plan B.


[ Parent ]
MIH, I did say earlier that I believed you posted and stated
clearly an unconfirmed report in good faith.

It was Mingus who questioned your motive. Most of us here felt that such questioning and the manner in which it was conveyed  was uncalled for.

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


[ Parent ]
MIH. The Canadian Dog Eats Home Work quote wasn't directed
at you. It was a Niman argument several months back. And no, I didn't expect you to benefit from a rumor. You have no commercial interest in this context, as far as I can tell.

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

[ Parent ]
Mary, I think it's quite clear
that most of us here agree with your handling of the information.  I also think it is important that we do not shoot the messenger when the information, confirmed or not, was clearly given in good faith.

What happened afterwards was unfortunate and outside of your control.  But this thread illustrates precisely why we need to have open dialogues about such things.

Unsubstantiated information, clearly labelled as such, is perfectly acceptable.  After all, if and when TSHTF, it is likely that the first reports will be rumors, if we are vigilant enough.

In addition, the flu forums are clearly having a larger impact in the 'real' world.  Whether we can do good will depend not just on getting timely information, but also on our collective ability to communicate in a responsible manner.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Thanks for posting the original Mary
We need things like this and, as has been reported, the power of this question through the media response has been huge.

The important thing is/was, we correctly identified it as a rumour and treated it as such.

Please continue to do this

Eat pudding first - who know's what might happen next! - Anon


[ Parent ]
Niman added disclaimer to commentary - in red letters
Quote

NOTE: Recombinomics could not confirm the above patient.

End quote

after the original first paragraph, which read:

Quote

Recombinomics has received several independent reports of a nine year old boy hospitalized in Rimouski, Quebec.  The patient has pneumonia and is in isolation.  More information on H5N1 testing on this patient would be useful.

End quote

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


[ Parent ]
RE: Niman disclaimer
anon.yyz
I could not find the disclaimer.  Could you provide a link please. Thanks.

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


[ Parent ]
Disclaimer in Red added to original commentary
http://www.recombino...

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

[ Parent ]
Rumour proven false, thankfully
I really need to learn how to use this site. I'm completely lost but I imagine there are explanations. Grumble, grumble, snark!

Very little about the original story made sense & no one I was able to reach last night expressed anything more than astonished surprise that it was even out there.

Luckily it was easily shown to be incorrect & I hope the next such rumours can easily be sorted out.


[ Parent ]
Rimouski
L.épidemie de grippe qui sévit à Rimouski a débuté en octobre 2005. Se sont surtout les enfants et le symptome le plus important est de tres fortes températures. +40'c, A St-Valérien près du Bic, l'an dernier il y a un jeune que je connais très bien. Lors de sa grippe la température était si élévée qu'il présentait des signes neurologiques, paralisie, allucinations etc... Jamais le type de virus n'a été identifier. Ce printemps, il y a eu de la grippe aussi a Rivière du Loup.

Cette été, j'ai personnellement eu la connaissance qu'un jeune bébé a présenter des symptômes de grippe avec une très forte température.

Présentement il y a de la grippe et l'hopital des jaquettes et des masques sont disponible pour les visiteurs.

En plus de lea C difficile et il a des cas de sarm

Gerard Donaldson
Rinouski


[ Parent ]
Rimouski (thanks Donaldson!)
My rough translation of Donaldson (with apologies, Donaldson, for errors)

There was a severe flu that arrived at Rimouski in October of 2005.  It affected children, and the foremost symptom was a temperature of more than 40 degrees C.  At St-Valerien near Bic, last year there was a young person that I know very well.  In addition to the high temperature, that person also presented with neurological symptoms, paralysis, hallucinations, etc.  The type of virus was never identified.  This spring, this flu was also in Riviere du Loup. 

This summer, I personally made the aqaintance of a young baby that presented with the symptoms of flu with a very high temperature. 

Presently flu is circulating and the hospitals are requiring disposible masks for visitors. 

On top of that there is the problem of C. difficile.


[ Parent ]
Quebec C. difficile
Quebec hospital bans visits

11/25/06 16:37pm | Modified: 11/25/06 16:37pm  /  http://www.nowpublic...

JOLIETTE, Que. -- Visitors have been banned and hand-washing security guards are in place at all entrances of a Quebec hospital trying contain an outbreak of the superbug C. difficile.

Seventeen patients at the Lanaudiere regional hospital have been diagnosed with Clostridium difficile infections in the past 12 days. "We are taking all measures to ensure that this outbreak will be contained," Caroline Barbir, the hospital ...


[ Parent ]
My niece has C. Difficile
Hi all,

My 9 year old niece is in the hospital with C. Difficile and she is very sick. The staff at the hospital (Northern Colorado) does not seem to know much about this as they are not using many precautions around her. She seems to have picked it up while getting her tonsils out. Scary stuff.


[ Parent ]
I'm so sorry to hear that Heather
I hope she recovers soon. My thoughts and prayers are with you both.

Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little- Edmund Burke

[ Parent ]
Thanks
Thanks MaMa and Pixie... Hope you are feeling better MaMa...  Thanks for the great work on the summaries too!

[ Parent ]
so sorry to hear that
Heather, that's very sad to hear, and it's scary that they are not using the basic precautions around her. 

I aquired a hospital infection after a C-section that kept me there for a week more.  The thing that is frustrating is that most of these illnesses can be prevented by simple hygeine and the most basic precautions.  With the superbugs that are being born, you would think that the hospital staff would be nearly obsessed with maintaining preventative routines.

My prayers are with your neice, and I hope she is home soon.


[ Parent ]
12 C. dificile deaths in Quebec
12th person dies of C. difficile at Quebec hospital

Saturday, November 18, 2006 | 10:39 AM ET /  http://www.cbc.ca/ca...

Two days after announcing that an outbreak of C. difficile was under control, a hospital in Quebec has reported a new death from the stubborn infection.

St. Hyacinthe's Honoré Mercier hospital said on Friday that a 12th person has died from the bacteria. Thirty-one patients at the hospital have been infected with Clostridium difficile in the last two months.

Four patients remain under observation.

A cleaning crew has gone through the hospital and other measures have been put in place to ensure sanitary conditions.

  What is C. difficile?

Clostridium difficile is a bacterium that can cause severe diarrhea. These infections are sometimes fatal. They're often acquired in hospitals, associated with the use of antibiotics. The drugs kill bacteria that normally live in the human gut, providing room for C. difficile to take over. The infections have been an ongoing problem in Quebec hospitals since 2004.

Earlier in the week, the provincial government ordered a coroner's inquest into the other 11 deaths at the hospital, 60 kilometres east of Montreal. An internal report found lapses in the hospital's hygiene methods.

Clostridium difficile infections cause severe diarrhea and are sometimes fatal. They are often acquired in hospitals, where they are associated with the use of antibiotics.

Lab results released on Wednesday confirmed a hyper-virulent strain of C. difficile was responsible for seven of the 11 deaths. That strain is believed to be up to 20 times more toxic than older varieties of C. difficile and has killed as many as 2,000 Quebecers since 2003.

A hospital in Gatineau, Que., is also struggling to control an outbreak of C. difficile. Eight patients have been diagnosed with the illness at Hôpital de Hull.


[ Parent ]
Bonaventure Island, Quebec - possible bird flu source?
http://www.touristtr...

Bonaventure Island, Quebec, Canada
By Sheila O’Connor

People say ‘love is for the birds’ and that’s true when it comes to the monogamous Northern Gannets on Bonaventure Island in the Gaspe region of Quebec’s rugged northern coast. Here divas will find the largest, and most important, colony of gannets in North America (second largest in the world after St. Kilda in Scotland). This Canadian gannet colony is by far the most accessible one in the world to humans.

And the most noticeable too. In fact you can’t miss it. There are over 250,000 seabirds on this island during mating season and over 70,000 of them are Northern Gannets. The birds return here year after year to reproduce, and as you approach the island from the sea, it looks like every bird is either hovering overhead or clinging desperately to every nook and cranny on the rocky cliffs.

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


Humor (paraphrasing babylon 5)
And I have to report for those of you who are interested that absolutely nothing happened here in California today. There is nothing going on here.  Really.  Nothing at all of interest.  Now back to your regularly scheduled news report.

medical information provided is for discussion purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. if you believe you have a medical problem, consult your practitioner.

Humor or rumor. Is that a typo :-)
Let's change this to Humor diary. Now we are OT. On Topic.

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

[ Parent ]
anon on topic
Actually, anon, I am on topic.  The comment about nothing happening in California was correct at the time it was posted (today there is news of a Ugandan crested crane on the loose in the hills here, so I suppose that could be a vector).

In the Babylon 5 context, at one point the 'good guys' wanted to convince some reluctant collegues to allow them military resources to patrol for the bad guys (the Shadows) on the edge of known space, without letting them know what it was they really were patrolling for lest some of the collegues be turncoats.  To get them to authorize the military asset deployment, they seeded the news with reports that nothing happened in sectors where actually, nothing had happened.  But since the news does not ordinarily report nothing happening at a location unless something was expected to happen, it had two effects--one was that it concentrated attention on the area of no activity, thus distracting the target audience from significant things that they might otherwise have noticed and that the protagonists wanted to hide, the other was that it convinced them that something was going on and they should authorize the use of the military assets for patrols.

I think this sci-fi subplot contains lessons pertinent to our situation when interpreting rumors.

medical information provided is for discussion purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. if you believe you have a medical problem, consult your practitioner.


[ Parent ]
Seasonal Flu Outbreaks in US Yet?
I heard about some flu outbreaks in the southern states a week or two ago, TN and NC, I think, maybe others as well. School districts closed, lots of sick kids, parents, teachers, etc. Some kids hospitalized. CDC investigating. Doctors saying it was the worst flu they'd ever seen, etc.

Never heard anything more about it after that. Anyone else hear anything? Any news/rumors of other flu outbreaks?

The reason I'm so interested in seasonal flu outbreaks is that the first wave of the Spanish Flu was rather mild, mistaken for the ordinary flu, only a little worse. They didn't know it was a pandemic flu at the time. Then the second wave hit about 6 months later. They knew that was no ordinary flu.

I just wonder if there's any way to find out what the CDC found out when they went to North Carolina. I am sure they would have tested for H5N1.



would they have tested for H5N1?
On CE there has been a thread about the WHO guidelines for testing (I think here, too) and the very first statement is that IF there are birds sick in the area, THEN humans can be tested under thus and such conditions.

IOW, FIRST birds have to be sick, THEN people can be tested.  If I am wrong, anyone - let me know.  But it seemed clear to me.


[ Parent ]
Oh my gosh, you're right.
I forgot about those silly guidelines.

Of course, birds will not be acknowledged as being sick until people die.



[ Parent ]
CDC was in NC
From what I heard, the CDC was in NC during their recent seasonal flu outbreak.  It is not usual for them to show up during the first outbreaks of seasonal flu, but I believe that they were there not because they suspected it might have been anything other than seasonal flu, but because they were testing out some of the community containment measures they might use later during a pandemic.

This idea seems to have been confirmed by SusanC's post about the upcoming "Community Mitigation During a Pandemic Stakeholders Meeting" in Atlanta.  One of the meeting discussion points says that the CDC has indeed been to the earliest flu oubreaks to learn what they could about how NPI strategies might work:

Influenza season has begun for 2006 and real life experience has been gleaned from outbreak investigations on some NPI strategies.. http://www.newfluwik...


[ Parent ]
Message from ADuckOrangeMercurey

The message below was posted on the old forum rumors thread. I know many here follow this poster's info closely. The message below was posted this a.m.

ADuckOrangeMercurey — 29 November 2006, 08:38

All thoroughbred and non-pedigreed hens and chickens in my coop have been told that a round-up will take place next week. It seems the main cackles will be simply to the tune of general information about ways to prevent getting wet if a light rain were to fall on the roof of the coop. It is not known whether there will be whistles about a possible future hail breaking loose, though this is doubtful. Neither is it known whether the head farmer and his top fighting cocks will advise about water and grain storage, heat conservation measures, or such other precautions that may be needed in case of strong hurricanes. This poultry exercise may well turn out as a “don’t stress the birds, no worms to pick, time to hobble along” message.



if only a light rain were forecast...
Thanks ADOM, much appreciated.

[ Parent ]
Translation of DuckOrangeMercurey
I'm not an expert at duckspeak, but it sounds like this:

At Duck's place of work, there will be a meeting to inform them of more bird flu in the area in birds (with seasonal migration, etc, I imagine). Duck doesn't know if TPTB at his place of work will warn of the possibility of h2h transmission and a pandemic. Also doesn't know if they will be advised to prep for SIP with food, water, and alternate heat and energy supplies.


[ Parent ]
RE: Quebec rumor
This is all I have been able to come up with at the moment.
Orginally posted by Dutchie on CE @9:39, this morning. 11/29/06

"Just spoke to Civil Protection of Quebec.  They have nothing on file conerning this possible case."
for full text, http://www.flutracke...

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


cottontop your link is not working


Natural selection is at work all the time.

[ Parent ]
RE: link
try again. If it doesn't work, go to flu trackers, see it there.

http://www.flutracke...

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


[ Parent ]
This has just come through on NewsNow
I posted this to the News Diary


Internet rumours of a human bird flu case in Rimouski exasperate hospital

(CP) - The power of the Internet rumour mill slammed up against a hospital in Rimouski, Que., on Wednesday, leaving infection control specialists and pediatricians bewildered by claims they were treating a child gravely ill with H5N1 avian flu.
Dr. Patrick Dolce, the hospital's head of microbiology, confirms there is no case of H5N1 flu in the hospital.

Dolce says the hospital doesn't even have a pediatric patient suffering from any respiratory illness.

"This is totally untrue. There is no case of respiratory illness in any children right now in the hospital. No cases at all," Dolce said.

He added that when he raised the rumours with a colleague, the infectious disease specialist on duty Wednesday, "she laughed at me."

Several Internet websites on pandemic influenza reported rumours that North America had its first human "bird flu" case in an unlikely spot - Rimouski, a city of about 42,000 people on the St. Lawrence River north of Quebec City.

Hospital administrators, who were initially unaware of the rumours, took some perplexing calls. A concerned man identifying himself as a physician called from Italy to check out the reports.

Dolce says the rumours are entirely untrue.

link http://www.mytelus.c...


Hmmm, maybe we have found a new way to get our questions answered ... well done team!
 

Eat pudding first - who know's what might happen next! - Anon


[ Parent ]
H5N1 suspected due to possible B2H, not H2H?
Based on the original rumor, it seems to me that the 9 year old got sick with flu like symptoms, isolated in a hospital because of heightened surveillance and precaution, and the only known reason to suspect possible H5N1 may simply be the question: have you been traveling or visiting a place with a lot of birds and the answer came back "Bonaventure Island".

I would be more concerned if the answer was "I just returned home from a trip to Indonesia (pick your country)" and I did not visit a poultry farm.

Even if it's confirmed B2H, it would not immediately increase my PPF.

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


RE: Quebec what's up
The first I heard of this was this morning, from Maryinhawaii, who said she got an email.  I then find it first posted on EC @6:55am this morning, and then I found it posted at avianflutalk @3:15 am this morning. And guess who also has it posted, although no time is given? Niman.
We have four of these circulating this morning.... well you fill in the dots.

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


Who is saying this
Who is saying this?  Nobody seems to be able to track down the source.  I move to vote, that unless you can name your source, or you are well established here, and it is known what your relationship is with "unknown source",(i.e. your occupation/government, ect.) unnamed rumors stop being posted.  This is too much, "he said/she said," and far too serious to rely on "unnamed".

just my 2 cents worth.

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


Hospital denies rumors
http://www.mytelus.c...

Wednesday, Nov 29, 2006
Internet rumours of a human bird flu case in Rimouski exasperate hospital

(CP) - The power of the Internet rumour mill slammed up against a hospital in Rimouski, Que., on Wednesday, leaving infection control specialists and pediatricians bewildered by claims they were treating a child gravely ill with H5N1 avian flu.
Dr. Patrick Dolce, the hospital's head of microbiology, confirms there is no case of H5N1 flu in the hospital.

Dolce says the hospital doesn't even have a pediatric patient suffering from any respiratory illness.

"This is totally untrue. There is no case of respiratory illness in any children right now in the hospital. No cases at all," Dolce said.

COMMENT -

Cottontop, I do think this is the place for rumors like this - that way we can investigate quickly and put them down quickly if need be.  Mary is an established poster, and I thank her for giving us the heads up. We may have many red herrings before finding out something real.  No big deal.


I'm just curious
as a thought exercise, how long did it take between the first appearance of the rumor (that we know of) and the denial from the hospital?



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
I had the same question
22:52 yesterday  - MIH posts the rumor (one which she heard from a trusted source) here at FW.

22:55 yesterday - The FC at CE picks up the rumor and reposts it in its entirety.

6:16 today - Niman posts the rumor at FT.

10:39 & 10:45 today - A poster at FT states that he has spoken to the Ministry of Health of Quebec and there is "nothing on file" about this.  FC picks up the denial and repeats it. 

14:20 & 14:21 today - The poster at FT states that the MOH of Quebec has stated that "there is no patient with pneumonia in the hospital."  FC repeats the denial a minute later. 

14:42 today - News Now picks up the press stories that a doctor at the Rimouski, Quebec "confirms there is no case of H5N1 flu in the hospital." 

So, about 14 hours from rumor to official public denial.


[ Parent ]
got it, thank you! n/t




All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Not Exactly . . .
22:52 posted at the Wiki

23:55 first mention at CE in the "Rumors" thread

At midnight, since mention had already been made in the above  thread at CE, I posted there what I had read at the Wiki about the story.  (By then, CanadaSue and I had been trying to find information on the story for an hour.)

Just so everybody knows how it went.  :)


[ Parent ]
you're right
Sorry, my typo, CE should have read 23:55 rather than 22:55. 

[ Parent ]
Yep
Glad someone sees it too, anon.yyz.  Rumored emails.  A pain in the butt. Has any of these rumors on this thread actually came true?

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


Denial
From the article:

"This is totally untrue. There is no case of respiratory illness in any children right now in the hospital. No cases at all," Dolce said.

This denys that there was a kid with pneumonia. So what gives?


no respiratory illnesses?
I have to admit that the only really unbelieveable part of this Quebec 9yo with H5N1 rumor is that the hospital has said that they have no children as patients at all with respiratory illness.  "No cases at all."  Now that I find more questionable than the "no H5N1" statements. 

[ Parent ]
Ree
I'm just asking folks to stop and think just for a monemt before they post those rumors.  This situation is getting far to serious to be posting rumors so lightly. There are people here, who are anxious anyway, not knowing what is going on because we are being overwhelmed by what coming in now, (and keeping track of it all, is another story).
I could post rumors all day long, based on unamed said this, but I will not, until I can verfy it.  Until I can verfy it, it's a rumor without a cause. And at this stage, we need all the reliable information we can get, not more heresay rumors.  If it has an ounce of something tangable, post it.

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


Reliable rumor?
I hear what you're saying.  However, I don't believe MIH posted without considering the ramifications.  She's been around these boards longer than you and I put together, and I don't think she's just getting her kicks from making stuff up.  Others might, but I don't believe she would.  She felt this was a source that she could trust - that's okay with me. 

FWIW, I'm normally really skeptical.  I just don't want someone else hesitating to post because they are afraid we'll rag on them if they can't back it up three different ways.  We might miss something really important if we do that.


[ Parent ]
I don't fault MIH. I believe the rumor was posted in good faith.
She explicitly stated the rumor was unconfirmed. It was a heads up.

Quote

there are unconfirmed
reports ... Nothing else is known at this time.

End Quote

On the other hand, Dr. Niman didn't say it was a rumor in his commentary, and made it sound like independently reported:

Quote

Recombinomics has received several independent reports ...

End quote

After the government denied the rumor, Dr. Niman added a disclaimer, but continued to use the same arguments in the rest of the commentary.

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


[ Parent ]
a
All most forgot, mary, I am in no way attacking you.  you have a very good track reacord, (i find you reliable at least), so please don't think I am.  ;-)

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


It's a RUMOR thread
Sounds like an attack to me.  This is a rumors thread and someone posted a rumor.  If you don't like how you react to rumors that turn out to be false, then you should be in the NEWS thread instead.  I for one would like to at least know what rumors are out there, even if they later turn out to be false (like most rumors in life eventually do).

[ Parent ]
rumors
yes, rumors are rumors are rumors.  That is what it is for.  We need to be alert but not excitable. And EMTim I agree, I want to know what rumors are out there and what health items are "not bird flu but close".  That is an early warning system.  We just have to be smart about it. I have the same problem with taking news reports from an un-named reporter.

Just learn to be calm, don't over react, check primary sources, and "be cool".

Be Prepared


[ Parent ]
Yes
Rumours in the rumours thread, confirmed rumours to the news thread, unbiased news to the... well there's no such thing.

To calm the wife buy cases of chocolate, to calm the husband buy cases of booze, and to calm the children...... heck the booze and chocolate should work.

[ Parent ]
EMTim
Don't troll.  Not my intentions at all.  This has really upset others as well, namely the Head Custodian at CE, who has asked, "to watch out for this stuff, and please avoid posting anything from AFT (Avian Flu TAlk), here if possible," (talking to CE posters.}
This rumor seems deliberate, and reactions are justified.
If you woyuld like to read more of his comments, go to CE, rumors.

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


[ Parent ]
Not trolling
This isn't about trolling, it's about allowing people to post "he said/she said" type of rumors that they have some reason to believe.  I can only assume (since I haven't made any attempt to contact anyone) that the source of this rumor had reason to believe it.  Turns out it's false.  As I said before, most rumors are. 

We've seen lots of rumors here that never turn into anything, but insisting that people "name your source" or list their occupational qualifications is asking too much of a rumor.  The bigger problem is people acting on rumors - calling hospitals, sending out press releases, etc.  It's a rumor and by definition it's probably not true and each time I expect to see the original poster follow up in a few days with more info, if not  it will just fade away.  People who panic and act based on a "he said/she said" rumor really shouldn't read them.

One last thing - what if it had turned out to be true?  Wouldn't it have been nice to get an early head's up?


[ Parent ]
Horse's Mouth
For those who'd like to see exactly what a0 said . . .

http://www.curevents...


[ Parent ]
Little us did that?
Although perhaps we found we jumped the gun, I for one, am happy to see that we can affect a world outside of our own.  This was a rumor, no one claimed it to be anything more, and nonetheless, an answer from an official source came quickly.  All because of our little rumor.  I think what happened was actually quite satisfying.

Meteorologist in Florida!?!  Now we're talkin'!!!

even Turkey
Notice the hospital even got calls from as far away as Turkey.

I know a lot of people here believe in conspiracies and the governments hiding things.  But I really don't think they could do that for long (at least for cases in N. Amer).

Conspiracies are rare, incompetence all to common.

Be Prepared


[ Parent ]
Thank you!
For your words of wisdom...

Conspiracies are rare, incompetence all to common.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Rumor based Virology or Denied Rumor based Virology?
There is nothing wrong with posting a rumor in the rumor thread. It was even better if we asked for verification (thanks to gharris). This may in time be one more way to find out the truth.

I have heard of evidence based science, but it seems that we have within a matter of hours, Dr. Niman using rumors, and subsequently denied rumors to validate pet theories.

Is Recombinomics theory Rumor-based or Denied-rumor-based virology?

Have Rumors recombined into OBVIOUS CLEAR DATA?

Do we have to study Rumors as part of the HOME WORK to learn  Recombinomics theory?

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


[ Parent ]
Rumours
I don't much care what other sites think...This was posted as a rumour, confirmed as a rumour and from what I see it stayed on the rumour thread here...and when posted at other sites--was described that this was a rumour--if other forum sites flip and take it as fact, that's their problem and they need to take a chill pill and define rumour a bit better. Gosh.

We should be free to post rumours on the rumour thread/diarys and we shouldn't have to back them up cuz there is no proof which is what makes them rumours.

Just my 2cents

KimT


Agree
Mary in Hawaii is reliable.  This rumor was not from some unknown person posting for the first time.  She posted on the rumors thread and clearly labeled the information she heard as a rumor.  What she expected us to do next, I am very sure, was to look into it.  That we did.  I looked, and didn't come up with anything.  (What I did come up with, on confirmed and problematic C difficile circulating in Quebec, I posted). 

Anyone posting on the rumors thread is really requesting the rest of us to use our resources to do due dilligence.  That's a specialty in these parts.  ;-)

There are going to be false rumors - that's almost the definition of the thread. Few will turn into actionable and confirmed news.  Most of us who read here are ok with that.  I can only say to those who get queasy from the rumors - try to wait 5 minutes, and no doubt someone here will be able to verify or neutralize the rumor, as was done today.  Some of us find the rumors interesting, but rumors make some crazy.  Also remember that some rumors will require a great deal of patience and a long memory as we may only learn much later that they were, in the end, true. Either way, we should just have patience and do our due dilligence.  Betcha lunch that one day one of the rumors we pick up, (maybe one that is already posted here somewhere), will turn out to be something important.  You just never know...


[ Parent ]
I agree
The issue is due diligence.  We each need to be custodians of our own standards in communication in that regard, IMO.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Maryinhawaii what are your source ? or why did you did that ?
Since it discretited all the flu tracking ( in two words )community can we know why youy did this?

Give us your sources & they better speak french.
Why someone in hawwaii would know what,s goin on in a place where almost nobody speak english...


that's a bit rough
don't you think?  I would assume MIH posted a rumor on the rumors thread because it was a rumor.  Other sites made their own decision to pick up the rumor, and hopefully they also placed it on their rumor thread, where it properly belonged and was found at FW.

[ Parent ]
Careful Mingus...
It's not nice to say things like that here. I suggest you do a little studying also...

[ Parent ]
Hey Mingus, did you ask Dr. Niman for sources?
Mary said it was an unconfirmed report, Dr. Niman said he had several independent reports.

Do you think a doctor from Italy would have called the Rimouski hospital if he/she only read Mary's unconfirmed report,without reading Dr. Niman's quote of several independent reports?

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


[ Parent ]
The only people discredited were those who
chose to remove the word RUMOUR from the discussion.

I was pleased that MIH placed the posting - we need to have this information.  And it was correctly posted - as an unsubstantiated rumour - nothing more, nothing less.

MIH, and all others, please continue to post just the same way - we need these - all those going ballistic - think if it had turned out to be true - would you have been thanking MIH then for giving us the 'heads-up'?

If people allow themselves to 'freak out' over rumours then they need to study the meaning of the word again - it is a RUMOUR!

Eat pudding first - who know's what might happen next! - Anon


[ Parent ]
Response
My experience is that folks from Hawaii speak English rather well.  Have you even visited there?

I don't think asking to reveal the source's identity is what is needed.  In my mind it is not a question of who, but what (nature of MIH's relationship with the source.)

And why. 

If it is someone MIH knows and trusts personally (which it seems like it was), then the passing on of the report to MIH was a good faith misatke - an error - it happens. MIH reported it as rumor, it was checked out and rapidly confirmed as false by the officials involved.

The only real purpose for inquiry would be if MIH thinks it is possible that it was a set-up for some reason - or was given to her source for some reason other than good faith.  In any case - no reason to not remain civil, eh? 

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
pidgin
Bodda you akamai?--Not.

Lolo kolohe.

:P

medical information provided is for discussion purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. if you believe you have a medical problem, consult your practitioner.


[ Parent ]
Pidgin
'O ia mau no

Pehea 'oe?

Good company here I see.

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


[ Parent ]
FT/Niman quoted in Reuters article
http://today.reuters...

Reuters story:

Quote

The Internet discussion forum, which cited no specific sources and was headlined "Suspect H5N1 Patient in Rimouski Quebec Canada?" stated the boy had pneumonia and was in isolation.

End quote.

That was the Breaking News headline this morning on FT started by Dr. Niman.

This Reuters news is attributed to FT or Dr. Niman or both. FT later moved this out of the breaking news and added the word "No" to the headline.

So why beat up MIH? Please be nice.

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


[ Parent ]
mingus
I am not sure exactly who you think I am, so let me spell it out for you. I am a public school science and math teacher, a mother and grandmother. I am highly educated and poorly paid. I love my family, I love my students, I love my community, I love the natural and unnatural world, and I have always been someone out there trying to solve the world's ills and make things better. I'll take the hits rather than duck the responsibility. I am an ardent environmentalist and anti war activist, as well as a published novelist. I have no agenda and no desire to do anything other than help people and the planet survive at the highest level. Right now, facing this pandemic, make that at any level.

I will give you my name: you can google me and find out more.  Mary Quijano aka Mary L. Quijano aka Mary Louise Quijano.  You can also check out a couple of my novels which I have made available online for free at www.freeoriginalbooks.com. They say alot more about me than I ever could.

I won't "reveal my source" as I already said it was one personal friend who I trusted as a very level headed straight shooter who was only giving me a personal heads up on something that he had heard from enough reliable sources to figure it was worrisome. I passed it on to fluwikie as a rumor because I felt the people here had a right to know and a right to check it out. We are all here in the same boat for the same purpose as far as I can see. We do not trust normal (govt controlled) news media or political entities to give us timely accurate data, so we are trying to find it ourselves in time to survive and help each other survive. If anyone has any other agenda here, I truly haven't seen it. Also, not to be picky, but Hawaii is spelled with one w, and yes, we are quite literate over here. No mo' da kine grass skirt. And lisa the gp, most people who know me consider me quite akamai, not lolo. Well, maybe a little lolo.

Always have a plan B.


[ Parent ]
This IS a Rumor Thread
and MFH clearly stated it was a rumor. Some rumors turn out to be true, while others are simply just rumors. There should be no personal attacks on this thread and posters who hear a rumor should feel free to post it without "verifying" the rumor. This could be just how we get the "heads-up" on a situation.

Thank you MFH for posting the rumor.


a
Listen good people, I'm a neverous nelly living near the Canadian border, to begin with.  We went through this with SARS, and the anxiety of "will it cross the border, or will it not?", was on everyone's mind everyday. People were making bug out plans, in case it did jump the border. We were on edge for weeks.  So when I read Canada and H5N1 in the same sentence, my anxiety rises, because I have one month of prep, and I realize time would not be on my side to be fully prepped. And to find out this was a false report, well I got upset. This would have been huge to me, as opposed to say people on the other side of the country.  It would hit me first. Anyhow, again I state, Mary, don't worry about it.  You did what everyone else here would have done. ;-)

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


don't worry Cottontop!
Cottontop, those of us who don't live close to the SARS epicenter can't imagine how jumpy word of a potential case of H5N1 in Canda might make those of you who have already been through such an episode.

But remember, even if there are human cases of H5N1 acquired from birds in North America, it most likely will still have the limited transmisiblity that H5N1 acquired from birds has now in other places, even in Indonesia, wich is rife with the stuff.  It seems inevitable that some human cases acquired from birds will be found here at some time, but they will probably be sporadic and, again, not the highly transmissible sort.

What we are worried about is encountering the pandemic strain, which is something entirely new.  It will look different, I think, and will most likely involve more than one case, rumored or confirmed.  If the case in Canada had proven true, we might have had to reconsider our practice of beach combing in areas full of wild birds.  Otherwise, I don't think the features of the presumed case resembled "the" outbreak of the pandemic, which is what we really need to focus on and worry about. 


[ Parent ]
RE: Pixie
Your totally right.  We do need to focus on that. Boy, you can't imagine how stressful it is for me to not be prepped. I have this fear of being caught so unprepared, because we know this can happen at any given time. I am so glad this rumor is not true, and boy am I gonna sleep good tonight!
Thanks Pix

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


[ Parent ]
Repost from Ol' Yeller
Wolf? — 29 November 2006, 19:22

All in all, I think it’s good news all around. Presented as rumor, dispelled as rumor; fast and with a lot of coordination. The internets are a wonderful thing, no?

Added comment here:

14 hours - start to finish. (Pixie - you are a wonder!)

Susan (AKA Wolf)


Yes
And in defense of Mary, I think she was an innocent bystander.

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


q
she got caught in this by accident, is what I meant to say.

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


[ Parent ]
Legitimated question
To Bronco Bill I would suggest that he visit the Mingus's lab section at FT before giving too much advice on studing.

I personnaly ask Niman who where his source & the answer was two independent phone calls then this thread in this forum.

I ask again if his source was from inside the Rimouski's hospital & It seem it was not. Clearly there was a problem & then then a serie of phone calls finnally debunk the rumor.

I never say they don't speak english in hawaii, to the reverse.

I say they don't speak english in rimouski and logically, the rumors, would normally flowed in the french language first then spread in the english world. It did'nt & the rumors came from the everywhere exept from rimouski.

I don't care if this thread is named "rumor", I only ask to Maryinhawaii to tell us more about the supposed sources because it came from various origin.

The news that negate the rumour only been published in english because the rumour never spread in the french side of canada...

My goal is not to inflame a useless debate but to understand what was this & where this come from.


Re: Legitimated question
''I only ask to Maryinhawaii to tell us more about the supposed sources because it came from various origin.''

No, Mingus, you basically slandered an entire people with your comment: Why someone in hawwaii would know what,s goin on in a place where almost nobody speak english....

You're saying that the people in Hawai'i don't receive timely news. The good people in Hawai'i receive just as much news as any other people in the modern age, if not more. CNN, Reuter's, AP, UPI, Fox, all have offices there. If you feel that the Hawai'ian citizens don't know what's going on, perhaps you should pay a visit to our 50th state and familiarize yourself with the mix of local customs and the 21st century on the Islands.

MaryInHawaii posted what she heard AS A RUMOR. A RUMOR is defined as:
1. A piece of unverified information of uncertain origin usually spread by word of mouth.
2. Unverified information received from another; hearsay.

Here's a link: Rumor

I don't care if this thread is named "rumor",

Perhaps you should start caring. This IS a rumors diary.


[ Parent ]
I read differently
I didn't take it that HA couldn't speak English. I took it that Quebec spook French and we (english speakers) may not understand exactly what was going on there.

Be Prepared

[ Parent ]
Mingus, are you the new sheriff in town?
The way you talked to our Deputy Bronco Bill :-), I thought for a moment you were the new Sheriff in town, or may be you are just Niman's bouncer.

You wrote:

I don't care if this thread is named "rumor"

End Quote

Well, you can't be mad at us because you can't tell the difference between rumor and news.

and you wrote:

My goal is not to inflame a useless debate

End Quote

Really. Look at how many responses you got, and think about whether you achieved your goal.

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


[ Parent ]
rumors are rumors
No problem with Marys info here. I think the board handled this pretty well. My problem is with how Dr Ninman handled this I have a big problem with his behavior

best summary! let's move on n/t




All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Internet rumours of bird flu case...
Internet rumours of bird flu case in Rimouski, Que., are 'totally untrue'

Quote from news article by Helen Branswell:

"Niman, who lives in Pittsburgh, wrote an item for his website saying several independent sources were reporting a child in hospital in Rimouski was sick with H5N1 disease. Word of the rumour was e-mailed to several news organizations in Quebec, though not, it would appear, by Niman.

Suddenly the Rimouski hospital was getting calls from a man identifying himself as a physician from Italy and from news organizations. "We had a call from the New York Times," said an amazed Dolce.

In an interview, Niman said he heard the rumour from two independent sources he trusted. Later, he called back to say he believed he might have been the victim of a hoax, saying the first call he took appeared to be from someone impersonating a person he knew.

The bloggers who write the respected public health website Effect Measure were also approached with the rumour, but chose not to run with it."

Full article here:
http://www.canadaeas...


well, I missed that the first time round
Later, he called back to say he believed he might have been the victim of a hoax, saying the first call he took appeared to be from someone impersonating a person he knew.

Now we know the source of the mix-up....right?



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
also..
victim? 

Hmmm... I need to think about that...



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
This link hopefully works better for the Branswell article
I hate to be picky, but
the complete statement of Dr. Patrick Dolce at the Rimouski hospital was, (as quoted in the Canada Press story by Helen Branswell):

This is totally untrue. There is no case of respiratory illness in any children right now in the hospital. No cases at all,"

In risk communications, that bit of "right now" is called a "qualifier".  The doctor's statement may be very accurate, but it does comes with a qualifier.  (I know that even bringing this up will give some of you a headache, and for that I apologize). 

So, we have one of three possible scenarios with regard to the rumor of H5N1 in a 9-year-old in Quebec, each of them plausible.  It is either:

1.  True
2.  False
3.  Memorex


[ Parent ]
here's a great quote from CE
that addresses this issue of language

BUT for those in the top tier (which includes those who claim credibility, those who earn credibility and those who find themselves with credibility whether they want it or not), EXTRA care is required when posting. They bear responsibility that most of us frankly do not.

link



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
thanks great article
balanced and highly recommended.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
languages
I have a friend on the Islands, military she speaks several languages. I think french is one of the most beautiful languages in the world and they teach french all over the place...the language shouldn't even be an issue.

rumor & distortion
Bronco Bill, you completely distorted my point.
Your right, this is a rumor thread.

rumor & distortion



language
Just to be sure.

Every language are beatifull & allright. I never mean something else.

rumor spread quick...& more quickly in a native language
Usually there is more chance a rumor spread first in french in rimouski and then jump the language barrier & spread in english.

It did'nt spread in french & I don't think it came from rimouski.

By the way I'm from Quebec.


Up above
lost in the other business of today, you might notice that I translated from French a pretty interesting post about Quebec by Donaldson.  (At least I thought it was pretty interesting). 

[ Parent ]
Donaldson
I know him personnaly & I talked to him today.

[ Parent ]
credible?
Do you find his post credible?  I thought it was interesting, but I do not know Donaldson so I could not comment on its credibility.

[ Parent ]
rimouski seasonal flu
He only comment about the spread of a virulent seasonal flu overthere & his personnal witness of it in the area where he live & know many freinds.
He also comment on the c.difficile problem in Quebec hospitals  that are also very mediatised.

If the rumor would not come to be false, we could have understand the nersvosity of the staff in the hospital when the parent of a kid with pneumonia told the story about the bird sactuary in bonnaventure island. ( there is a setlement of around 300 000 birds there ).

The boy could have been given tamiflu for a hard annual flu just in case.

But yes the birds of that area are in contact with birds in PEI where a suspitious goose die-off have been recorded.

But anyway, there never been a 9 year old boy there...


[ Parent ]
Mingus, is there no one besides you in Quebec...
...that is bilingual?

[ Parent ]
french
Il me semble que presque tous les gens fluwiki peuvent lirer francais.

medical information provided is for discussion purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. if you believe you have a medical problem, consult your practitioner.

[ Parent ]
Mingus
Wow, so you are close to the non-action of the unsubstantiated rumor. :)I bet your relieved also that it ended up to be not true!

If it had been true..What would you have done?

Are you fully prepped? What is that hospital like?


Prep
I would like to be more prepped frankly,
But I beleive the human pandemic will come from asia.

(I must admit I did think about the st-lawrence seal wich are mammals that can hold influenza too ... sorry to Brigitte Bardot & Paul Mccartney :) )

No I live around 4h road from there, I much know about the Saint-Hyacinthe hospital where security guards await us at the door to tell us to wash ou hand... there have been a lot of c.difficile casualties there & each cases made the medias.


[ Parent ]
Mingus
Oh, and I wanted to thank you for sending the frigid bitterly cold air on down to Iowa ;) 66b degrees yesterday and below 0 windshield tonight.

Maybe this was a kick in the behind to get our plans and preps solidified.


ditto mingus weather
Here in the SF bay area we're having the coldest night in 15 years--35F in San Francisco, and high 20's in the more inland portions of the Bay Area.  I had to put frost covers on the flu victory gardens at my house and my parents house (since they are traveling)--its quite a distance to drive between them so that was a bit of a task.

BTW I've just finished reading the comments here after posting my explanation of the Bablyon 5 humor.  I'm sorry that you guys couldn't place the reference in my obscure joke, as it sounds like the rumor mill really bit the web in the butt today and understanding the reference might have dampened that down a bit.

Mary in Hawaii you did a legitimate thing posting the rumor.  You had a rumor, people needed to know to start looking for verification or discrediting of the rumor.  It sounds like the problem was that several different sources on the web all independently sought to verify it directly.  And certain other sources who shall go nameless took the rumor without effort to verify it and promoted it to fact.

In the future maybe we netizens should all agree to wait for the report to come back from the person who first volunteers to follow up, before going to get the information directly.  In this case I think Canada Sue was a local and so, logical to follow up; those who called the hospital should have awaited her report of success or failure getting the info before making another attempt and swamping the hospital with calls on the topic.  Hindsight is 20:20.

This does, however, show how quickly word gets around the world from here.  So I suppose this rumor mill wasn't a total loss as it quantified the turnaround time.

I'd like to point out that if the rumor had been true, that would still not have indicated anything about a pandemic, as there was no trail of human infection  leading to the kid, and thus the kid would have to have caught it from a bird--that is, the virus would not have been doing anything new.  All it would have indicated was the arrival of HPAI H5N1 in new world wild birds.  Since the rumor was not true and there have as yet been no tests finding high path H5N1 in new world birds (low path is at background levels), there is no indication of any change in status here in the North/South American continents.

medical information provided is for discussion purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. if you believe you have a medical problem, consult your practitioner.


[ Parent ]
Mary In Hawaii,
I have followed this rumor and seen how those, including yourself, who reported it, have been attacked, and I've been very saddened by how it might have hurt you.



Some thoughts on the quebec rumour
It's been very interesting watching the Quebec incident unfold.

I think there's a lot to be learnt from this about how the 'real thing' might play out. It goes part way to answering some of the questions about how long it would take for rumour of an outbreak to hit the headlines and hence how much of a heads up fluwikians might get on the general population.

It shows that influential people are paying us some attention, which is good.

I also wondered if the rumour was a deliberate act for TPTB to observe the ripples. NO! I don't beleive that, I hate conspiracy theories. But wasn't there some mention of a media test?...

All in all, many thanks to Mary in Hawaii and please don't let the feathers flying put anyone off posting a runour 'cos one of these day's it'll be the real thing.


I completely agree on all points n/t


Meteorologist in Florida!?!  Now we're talkin'!!!

[ Parent ]
Good Morning folks
I'm just hoping that this doesn't damage any credibility than honest and well intended flu sights have.  After reading one news report last night, I thought about this. We're trying to inform people and get them to listen.

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


rumor
Didn't MIH say this AM that her source was sticking to his info?  I'll have to go check again at old yeller.

Cottontop-If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything! 


lohrewok
Please explain why you felt the need to direct that comment towards me.  I am entitled to have my opinion, just as the others, and I don't feel I was so out of line with mine.  I've explained why I was upset.  Go back and read my conversation with Pixie.

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


[ Parent ]
Rumors - a grain of truth?
I don't want to stir anything up, but I will say for the record that I am not convinced that Mary's rumor was really wrong.  That was very some interesting terminology used by the hospital spokesperson in the official denial; it left some wiggle room.  Where there's smoke, there's fire... and that "non-existent child" just happened to be living very close to an area with many wild birds.  I don't find the story especially hard to believe.

Furthermore, I don't think that we'll get a straight answer from the authorities on the first American case - it may have already surfaced somewhere.  They're not going to admit anything until they absolutely must - there is too much at stake in terms of the economy.

Call me paranoid, but in my opinion, only time will tell.


Re: rumors- a grain of truth
Meserole in FL
Well said.  I'm so confused right now I don't know what to think.  I came across this at CE, "Helen Branswell names Niman: Internet rumors of Rimouski, Que., "totally untrue"
http://www.curevents...
Once I read that, and the rest of the posts, well, in your words, Meserole, "call me paranoid, but in my opinion, only time will tell."  How true.

United we stand: Divided we fall
www.flunewsnetwork.com


[ Parent ]
I dont see any wiggle room
The statment is factual. If the spokesperson had said we have no children with resp illness. Would this be different? Im sure they have had children with resp problems in the recent past. Without the qualifier right now the statement could have been percieved as innacurate. I can see a statement without the qualifier would have resulted in the same type of speculation were seeing now. The hospital has denied this rumor in a clear concise statement. Done deal.

Lisa is correct in her analysis. Even if the rumor was true it would not have signaled the beginning of a pandemic. I also agree that Mary was correct in posting what she had heard. All would have been fine if the process of checking out this rumor had been allowed to run its course. CS would have tracked it down as false and we would have all just gone on. Outside forces apparently sought to garner some attn from this and it got blown way out of preportion.

Mingus apparently your the one Im to thank for the winter storm heading my way. So thank you:-)


the great well of anti-flu tracking
This incident showed me one thing.

I already knew "how" we do things around here - and by "here" I mean FW, FT, FC, P4P, Recombinomics.. etc.

Someone posts a bit of info and everyone jumps all over it like frogs on a lilly pad. That I think is great. And, we do it better than anyone or any org. on the planet. It has taken time to achieve but this shows just how good we are.

There is it seems a very large portion of the populous who have large amounts to lose should this Flu tracking actually uncover "something big".

It is obvious in all the ABBF explanations we hear as well as all of the arguments we hear from friends, relatives etc... about "why" IT won't happen.

We appear to be making quite a dent in the public defense as shown in the rather strong and quick response. MIH didn't do anything except do what we all have done every day. She found out a bit of "interesting" info with potentially huge consequences and hence there would be an attempted "cover-up". Come on folks... its not like it never happened before to us.

The area in question is in the area where "some" said HP BF H5N1 was found in one goose, then later denied. We all expect H5N1 to show up on our shores - should have done it last year right? We do have confirms of LP H5N1 in the states - which has caused a huge stir - NOT. The good Doc did say "right now"... how about 3 days ago? was there a kid 3 days ago showing BF signs... having been in the area with birds where H5N1 may have been detected? was he in isolation as a precaution? Why have we so quickly accepted "that" statement as full truth when we never do that? Do we flinch and cover when attacked as Helen B did? or do we come out swinging and say "Dr. Nabarro said Egypt worried him back in Sept 06. we have RBD issues from there and now reports of new sick people? Whats up with that? where are the bloodhounds? oh... they're under their covers licking their wounds.

I say YEA to what happened with this "rumor" and I say we suffered no loses. If anything we gained some info on the establishment out there... they are watching us now. And they are also waiting... but NEED to squash initial bad news to keep the engine running smoothly. A house of cards resting on the feather of a bird.

Tell the truth


'sides' and Helen Branswell
Goju, you talk as though there are 'sides' to be picked here.  I don't think that there are, there are only 2 groups--those who have recognized the issue and those that have not yet recognized the issue.  To set animosity between the groups is to slow the progress of the second toward the realizations of the first.

If there were 'sides', Helen Branswell would hardly be one to fall into the 'coverup collaborator' category.  Search her publication history and you'll see what I mean.

medical information provided is for discussion purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. if you believe you have a medical problem, consult your practitioner.


[ Parent ]
I am aware
of HB work and admire her greatly. i saw a video press conference with her and dr. Osterholm on H5N1 - she was awesome... almost in tears as she described what H5N1 can do.

I am saying that there is a great weight behind creating the impression that we flu trackers are rumor mongers and hence should not be taken so seriously.

Tell the truth


[ Parent ]
Rumor Mongers
Goju: "I am saying that there is a great weight behind creating the impression that we flu trackers are rumor mongers and hence should not be taken so seriously."

There are A LOT of rumor mongers on the flu boards.  There is a lot of animosity towards TPTB, which colors a lot of flubies as paranoid, anti-establishment, etc.  "It's a cover up," I've heard shouted from the rooftops so many times in the last couple of years that I have lost count.

I think we just have to keep our noses to the proverbial grindstone and ignore the characterizations of eccentricity, fear mongering, etc.  History will either show us to be right or to be wrong.  Either way, I'm prepped.



Chance favors the prepared mind - Louis Pasteur


[ Parent ]
pots and kettles
Goju said

I am saying that there is a great weight behind creating the impression that we flu trackers are rumor mongers and hence should not be taken so seriously.

"Creating the impression?"

I think anyone reading the flu communities for a short time can easily identify the pot-stirrers and rumor mongers. 

To pick an obvious case elsewhere (to avoid inflaming the equally-guilty whack-jobs here), consider the frequent alarmist and factually distorted 'press releases' to prweb by a particular web entity known to most of us.

There's no need to "create the impression" that flu trackers are rumor mongers because the ones who are make themselves visible enough to discredit everyone.

medical information provided is for discussion purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice. if you believe you have a medical problem, consult your practitioner.


[ Parent ]
Yes
If anything we gained some info on the establishment out there...

We did indeed, and it's pretty darn interesting to see how this played out. If we are smart, we will keep this process in mind.



[ Parent ]
Not possible to 'hide' the patient if reported by MSM
I don't believe the authorities can cover up and hide a patient with pneumonia symptoms etc. especially when the story was reported by Canada Broadcasting Corporation, and Canadian Press. In this instance, the response from the hospital was more or less impromptu, and corroborated at the Quebec provincial level and the Federal level. At the hospital level, I don't think they have professional spin doctors that would organize a cover-up response so quickly. There are simply too many officials whose future are on the line. Within the hospital, some one who knew (if this were a cover up) could simply contact the press and it cannot be covered up for too long. There is no upside to cover up a case of bird sanctuary B2H H5N1 case because it won't cause a panic and it may give officials political cover to spend some more money on preparing for pandemic. One may argue that an H2H story may be treated differently by officials.

Cover up carries no benefit. What about the three sources (notice both MIH and Niman said 3 sources stood by their stories, and Revere also received some rumors)?  Clearly, the spreading of the rumor was a very organized event, not by some one within the Quebec hospital system that was disgruntled - it would have been easier just to contact Helen Branswell.

Then we need to look at who stands to benefit from such a rumor? 

I think some one who invested in some fortune teller decided to bail out, and 'created' the story to validate the theory, in order to unload a commercial interest in a certain programme.

This is of course unconfirmed speculation in a rumor thread. Please do not get emotional, just consider the possibility.

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


your style
Your style reminds me of Melanie.  Are you Canadian?  Just curious.- wish you well. 

Be Prepared

[ Parent ]
Melanie will post here under her own name
when sh'es more fully recovered.

[ Parent ]
I am not Melanie. I am Canadian. I wish Melanie well too n/t


You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

[ Parent ]
welcome back
just wanted to be the first to say welcome back.

Be Prepared

Do we need to break up some threads?
Dem, do you think we need to start breaking some of these ongoing threads into pieces the way we used to? They don't slow down the forum anymore, but they sure are getting cumbersome to scroll down and find the new replies.

Tell Melanie we are thinking of her often and she is in our prayers. We owe her a great deal.


this place hadles diaries well up to 700-800 comments
but if you find it easier, just start a new thread and link to the old one. The deputies will demote the old one and promote the new one (reorganize it to get the new one seen).

it's 'do-it-yourself.'  ;-)


[ Parent ]
Don't scroll from the top
Open the thread, hit the "End" button, and scroll up until you no longer see messages marked, "New." Easy weezy.



[ Parent ]
Caveat
My suggestion only works if you have your display set to "flat" (which means the replies to existing messages are not indented and indented and indented). That indentation drove me nuts. The flat view is similar to the old wiki, which helped me get my bearings.

That said, it is occasionally confusing cuz some replies seem out of context. When that happens, and if it's important enough to me, I just retrace a little to put 2 and 2 together. Has only happened a few times so far, though.



[ Parent ]
I used to do something like that on the old forum,
but when you use the threaded format it is awfully easy to miss a scattered new, here and there, up in the top or middle of a thread when it gets really long. I've tried Irene's tip of searching for new, but we use that term so often in some threads that it just finds too many. :)

[ Parent ]
Search on your handle

If you post with any regularity in a diary, you can search on your handle vs. searching on the term "new." I used to do that on the old forum.

It worked well for me cuz I would read all comments and then post (if I were inclined) my own comment.

Doing the search served to return me to the point at which I left off on my last visit.

Wouldn't work well for lurkers, obviously.



[ Parent ]
no scrolling method
Finding New Entries in a Diary

To find the word "new" when viewing a diary: press CTRL F on your keyboard and then type [new in the search box.

If you open a diary to read new comments, you will often find that new entries are not clustered in one place as some entries may be new comments while others may be replies to earlier comments. The above CTRL F method will ensure that you don't miss any new entries and is a lot quicker search method than scrolling manually down a page.


[ Parent ]
What do the rest of you think about the length of threads?
I'd like some kind of consensus before I break up the thread. It just seems to me that it is getting so long that it becomes difficult to locate the new replies scattered here and there.

Yep I agree
Once threads get as long as this one it's time to start fresh.  As long as the new thread has a link back to the old one I don't see any problem.

[ Parent ]
It only got long with the Quebec rumor, which is dying as a story
Perhaps let that finish in a day or so, and then start a new one.

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

[ Parent ]
I started a new one here
http://www.newfluwik...

Why don't you break out a new thread at betweeen 175 and 200 comments?


[ Parent ]
NEW rumors thread
http://www.newfluwik...

Please post there.


New Rumors XIV | 216 comments
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