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Swine Flu Rumors

by: Okieman

Mon Apr 27, 2009 at 09:45:53 AM EDT

This diary is for posting rumors relating to the ongoing Swine Flu Epidemic/Pandemic.  

Unverified rumors can sometimes be correct and useful.  Then again, often they are bogus and should be ignored.  Reading this diary should be sort of like eating fish:  eat the meat, spit out the bones.  So, reader beware.

Here are two previous Rumors Diaries, each with some current info toward the bottom of the diary:


The Flu Wiki "Twitter News" diary can be found here:

Okieman :: Swine Flu Rumors
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Swine Flu Rumors | 101 comments
Bump for visibility n/t

Press conference this a.m. declined to comment on this, saying quarantine status would most likely be left to individual States to issue.  Even though the journalists pressed for specifics, speakers failed to note that Bush had signed a statement effecting Presidential power to quarantine anywhere in U.S., usurping a State Governor's right to use its National Guard to enforce.

Maybe the new administration doesn't know about this signing statement and how it relates to this situation.  Maybe they are avoiding "hot" issues as this one surely is.  

Just reminding forum users that this is in place.  I'm contacting the kids and telling them to have a full tank of gas and cash, water, etc., for travel if necessary.

WHO to phase 4??
I saw a moving headline on Bloomberg that the WHO had moved to phase 4, but could not verify it. If true, it should come out very soon.  

Stage 4?
I thought they had just raised Mexico to Stage 4. Not sure. Have not seen a lot of reports yet. I didn't think that it was in the plan to raise the stage of only one country, particularly when the virus has emerged in multiple countries within the past 48 hours. What gives?

[ Parent ]
Does Level 4 make sense?
Banshee: I agree, it would not have made sense to declare a pandemic level 4 for one country with New Zealand, North America and Europe showing cases. But with nearly 2000 likely cases and probably hundreds of deaths, it should not take them long to go to level 5 if they follow their own rules. Of course, getting the subtype of this virus is done by only a few labs and take time, but one would think at some point the overwhelming circumstantial evidence would be compelling. This is especially true if further social distancing measures would be undertaken with a higher level of alert. At this point, the "Don't panic!!" or economic damage arguments are pretty silly. Who is going to be a tourist in Mexico now? Or, for that matter, in the US or Canada? I think the world will go into a hunker down mode no matter what the WHO says. The question is what level of credibility they hope to cling to. Their experts should take account of the blogs from Mexican doctors saying that actual fatalities and cases are much higher than reported. Surely they could check this quickly?

some comments on the press conference here

All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

[ Parent ]
10 dead doctors in Juarez - Mexico
On another forum I post frequently in, a member just said that 10 doctors are dead at the Juarez hospital, and the whole hospital is in quarantine, and the Mexican .gov is withholding the info.

I've asked for email headers as confirmation, but I don't expect them. The origniating poster has 1200 posts since Jan of 2008 as a crediblity check...


Just heard from a friend who received a personal email from a doctor in Juarez - Juarez hospital in Mexico is now quarantined and that 10 doctors there have already died from the pig flu, and that this info is being withheld by the Mexican govt.

Also hearing about manufacturing plant closures, mostly in Mexico but one in Plymouth, MI.

quick google search for Juarez hospital quarantine revealed:

I talked to family in Mexico City this afternoon.

Schools have been shut down untill May 6th. Bars, gyms and theaters have been shut down too. They are handing out face masks, (or mouth/nose) for people riding the sub-way. It seems that, HOSPITAL JUAREZ, one of the biggest hospitals in Mexico City has been quarantined. There was an earthquake in central Mexico to make matters worse. Only causing somepeople to say they feel like it is a lot to handle or to be worried about on the same day. This morning Obama said there was no need to panic, but now there are 40 confirmed cases in the United States. Talking to another cousin that lives in Mexico City and I mentioned reading that some people felt that these were signs of the end of the world. We agreed that is was not, but I said it was sad that some people were feeling so bad and he said, "But I live in an apocalpytic city." That kind of helped put another perspective on things. As a person actually living in that City right now, opposed to someone reading about the city.

Just rolling along, making waves and causing trouble...

plant closure in plymouth MI is not flu related
I live in michigan very near plymouth, GM announced a major restructuring today. The plant closure is not confirmed but many are assuming that it will close.

Natural selection is at work all the time.

[ Parent ]
Rumor may be a bad lead....
I asked the person who relayed the info on the 10 dead doctors if he could ask for the email as verification.

Here is his reply:


unfortunately the source is me-->hr mgr of co. closing plants-->boss-->doctor, but i can certainly ask

With that many links in the chain, I would have to downgrade the reliability of this rumor.


Just rolling along, making waves and causing trouble...

[ Parent ]
Closures of Restaraunts in Mexico?
This is NOT a rumor, but a request for verification.  I decided it best to post here for an RFI so as not to cause alarm in a news thread if not true....

I saw this mentioned this morning, but am unable to track down a verification.

Has anyone seen official verification?

Just rolling along, making waves and causing trouble...

heard of closures but not forced ones
..."Markets and restaurants were nearly empty and all school-related activities were suspended in the capital and the states of Mexico and San Luis Potosi until May 6. Hundreds of public events from concerts to sports matches to were called off to keep people from congregating and spreading the virus in crowds. Zoos were closed and visits to juvenile correction centers were suspended..."


Restaurants may very well be closing for a variety of reasons:

- in response to very little business as people are staying home unless necessary.
- staff might refuse to come into work out of illness, suspected illness, or fear.

Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little- Edmund Burke

[ Parent ]
Rumor true, will post in news

Mexico City Will Close 35,000 Restaurants, La Jornada Reports
Share | Email | Print | A A A

By Carlos Manuel Rodriguez

April 28 (Bloomberg) -- Mexico City will close all 35,000 restaurants from today through May 5th, La Jornada said, as authorities try to avoid the spread of swine flu that may have killed as many as 152 people in Mexico.

The city government will send inspectors to verify the closures, La Jornada reported, citing Juan de Dios Barba, president of the local chapter of the Employers Confederation of the Mexican Republic.

The office of the mayor, Marcelo Ebrard, will make the announcement in the city's official gazette, La Jornada said.

To contact the reporter on this story: Carlos M. Rodriguez in Mexico City at carlosmr@bloomberg.net.

Just rolling along, making waves and causing trouble...

[ Parent ]
Interesting link to interesting local comments
'Swine flu: Your experiences'

"Readers in the areas affected by the swine flu outbreak have been sending their accounts to the BBC since the first cases were reported."


not verifiable, hence the placement in the Rumor Diary

Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little- Edmund Burke

RFI: Undiagnosed resp. illness in China: ProMed
I'm not sure where to post this, so I'll put it here. I read this last night and thought it was intersting in light of the lack of information from China and WHO's "everything is fine here" stance.

Anyway, feel free to move or delete it if it shouldn't be here ...

A ProMED-mail post
Date: Sat 25 Apr 2009
Source: Huashang Bao, China Daily report [in Chinese, trans. Rappt.DS, edited]

Outbreak of upper respiratory illness at a primary school in Shaanxi Province
Over 100 students at a primary school in Liquan County have caught colds [alternative translation is "influenza" - Rappt.DS] and the school has been closed for 4 days. Education, public health, and disease control agencies are jointly investigating.

Yesterday [24 Apr 2009], the main gate at "August First" Primary School in Shide Village in Liquan County was locked. A few kids were playing outside the main gate. A 3rd grade student said that their school has been closed since Thursday [23 Apr 2009] because so many students developed fever, colds [alternative translation is "influenza" - Rappt.DS]. School administrators said the school has a total of 300 students. Around 20 Apr 2009, students began developing fever, cough, and vomiting. Since then, the number of symptomatic students has been increasing and there are now 116 students taken ill.

To prevent cross-infection among students, the school was shut down for 4 days. Students are now being treated at Liquan County People's Hospital and Shide Village Health Center. Analysis by Shide Village Health Center has confirmed that the cause of illness is an upper respiratory tract infection, classified as a cold [alternative translation is "influenza" - Rappt.DS]. Liquan County education, public health, and disease control agencies are now investigating the cause of illness.

[Byline: Wei Guangjing]

Communicated by:
ProMED-mail Rapporteur Dan Silver

[Liquan County is a county of Xianyang district in Shaanxi province, China. It can be located on the HealthMap/ProMED-mail interactive map at http://healthmap.org/r/00au.

It is not possible from the information available to identify the specific cause of this outbreak of upper respiratory tract illness. One can only conclude that it is not caused by avian A/(H5N1) influenza virus infection due to the extent of the outbreak and presumed absence of exposure to diseased fowl. Likewise the novel strain of A/(H1N1) influenza virus causing global concern is unlikely to be responsible in the absence of stated exposure of the pupils to persons from abroad and Mexico in particular. Further information would be welcomed. -  

Pennsylvania-Langhorne PA - about 1 hour from Phila.
St. Mary's Hospital, last night a friend of my SIL was at the hospital and there were two people in masks waiting in the ER for treatment. 'Friend' jokingly asked if they just came back from Mexico and the response was 'yes'. The masked patients were not feeling well.  

www.EmergencyHomePreparation.org -- A 'card-catalog' style of prepping information.   -

san diego
Is there something going on in San Diego?  A new conference coming up????

Be Prepared

My mom in Indiana has a rumor
About someone returning from Mexico to her hometown and now in the hospital with suspected swine flu.  This isn't the same case I thought I saw was in N. Indiana.  She's in E. Central IN.

Meteorologist in Florida!?!  Now we're talkin'!!!


story here and read the comments, apparently 3 college students are in quarantine until they can be tested.

more here:


I am about 10 miles away. DH works right next door to one of the locations. So we have our eye on this one.
When he went to work last night, there was a meeting and he was told there are two cases.
I don't know if this is the same location you are concerned about but if I find anything else I will post it here.

[ Parent ]
Cool Influentia! Thanks for the links! I hope it's not. n/t

Meteorologist in Florida!?!  Now we're talkin'!!!

[ Parent ]
More Indiana info this morning

State testing 30 cases for swine flu

2 page article:


Although that student (Notre Dame) is the one confirmed case in Indiana, there could be more, given the approximately 30 other samples from across the state. A suspected case is one that tests positive for flu but is not a common strain.

"I suspect we're going to have a lot of testing that's going to be negative," Monroe said.


[ Parent ]
I think they nixed the story. Link doesn't work anymore. n/t

Meteorologist in Florida!?!  Now we're talkin'!!!

[ Parent ]
Apparently No or Little Tami or Relenza Left in Miami
Was at the pharmacy and this guy came up to the window trying to fill his Relenza.  He said he'd been to 7 pharmacies already and no one had it.  I asked the pharmacist later and she said they had nothing left of either.  Seems people are making a big run on it.  Haven't heard of any cases locally yet though.

Meteorologist in Florida!?!  Now we're talkin'!!!

Corpus Christi Suspect Cases
My sister tells me there are 20 suspected swin flu cases in Nueces County, Texas, the Corpus Christi area. She said she heard it on the news. Can anybody verify?

Corpus Christi
There are 326 as of yesterday.  You might want to look at their news site at http://www.kristv.com/

[ Parent ]
May 3
374 suspected, 3 probable

[ Parent ]
New Mexico samples being sent for testing
Several (up to 5) samples being sent to CDC this morning for testing from New Mexico. Heard on KOAT.  

Two Probably in New Mexico
The two cases sent to the CDC involve a 1-year-old boy from Santa Fe County and an 18-year-old male from Valencia County.

[ Parent ]
seasonal flu shot may offer some protection
There's a rumor that the difference between the HA of the swine flu virus and the seasonal H1N1 is substantial but is within the extreme end of seasonal variation.  Which means that the seasonal flu shot may offer a little protection.  It's an unconfirmed rumor, so take it FWIW.

All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

Swine Flu Suspect in Minnesota. A School Closed
Evidently there will be official announcement later this morning.

I have the location (smallish town in middle of state) and name of school, but will wait because I heard it on the radio and could be wrong.  Nothing about the case other than a K-12 (kindergarten - highschool) student.  

I will update when I have more.  

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain

Local source says 2 Minnesota schools closed nt

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain

[ Parent ]
Confirmed - 2 schools closed in MN
As a result of the probable case, the Rocori Middle School and St. Boniface School in Cold Spring, about 60 miles northwest of Minneapolis, have been voluntarily closed for the day by local officials.


ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain

[ Parent ]
Interesting. I'm up north in Duluth. Nothing here yet.
Heidi in MN

[ Parent ]
MN Case Confirmed by CDC (previously posted as suspect)
Related to two school closings in Cold Spring MN.  


ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain

[ Parent ]
As of this morning, no
suspect cases in Jefferson county. But I feel it's closing in around me. ;-(

United we stand: Divided we fall

Well I was just watching the news, and The Swine Flu is now in   phase 5 . fasten your seatbelts ,it could be a bumpy ride. Good Luck to all of you.  

I think I heard that the UK papers and media are going to run a major campaign Thursday
(or in the next few days if I misheard) under the direction of the government. I presume it will outline how the UK flu system will work. Apparenly the National Flu line, that was to be key to the operation, wasn't supposed to be up and running until the autumn so I don't know how they're going to deal with that.

This and phase 5 may lead the public to wake up to what a pandemic might mean. There may be increased activity at the shops and petrol stations. This may escalate over the bank holiday weekend as more alarming details come out and people have time to absorb it.

The online papers may start running details from about midnight GMT.

UK flubies might wandt to think how this will impact on their own preparations.

UK Flu Line
yes, they were supposed to do their first drill in July.  Notice the word FIRST.  As in, they never did any test runs before committing to millions of dollars and years of setting it up.  They haven't tested it with pandemic scenarios, with exponentally growing case nos plus worried well plus staff falling ill from transmission within call centers.

Well, I made some predictions a while back.  Tamiflu: How (not) to do distribution  My assessment still stand.  Like many things about avian and now swine flu, I wish I'm wrong.  But I'm not optimistic.

All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

[ Parent ]
And it all relies on BT, groan. n/t

[ Parent ]
"Probable" case in Omaha, Nebraska
My nephew is a medical student in Omaha and reports a fax this morning that told of a "probable" case. The person was visiting from San Diego, felt ill, and went to the hospital. The person is isolated in the hospital and has started Tamiflu. The person's contacts have been located, placed on Tamiflu and are also voluntarily quarantined in their homes.

State of Florida Update
As of today 65 samples have been tested with only one being forwarded to CDC.  This is a case of a Mexican Citizen visiting Disney World who fell sick and is hospitalized.

Maybe more tomorrow.

  No warning - no way to fight - no way to win!  
We need help in our local communities to survive. Remember that quote:    "...No man is an island..."

It's a small world after all
It's a small world after all
It's a small world after all
It's a small...

To calm the wife buy cases of chocolate, to calm the husband buy cases of booze, and to calm the children...... heck the booze and chocolate should work.

[ Parent ]
heard reports of suspect cases in the DC area
3 in Baltimore, 3 in Annapolis, and 8 in Northern VA from a source I will not reveal, hence they must be considered 'rumor', but I consider this information A-1.

Heard about the Maryland cases on the radio on my way home so that is partial confirmation of my source.

I would expect to hear of cases in the eastern panhandle of WV by the weekend.

Prudent People Prepare Properly

"better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!"

Nonessential offices to close
"Health Secretary Jose Cordova says nonessential federal government offices will be closed from May 1-5. He said all nonessential private businesses must also close..."


Now, what I want to know is why they would ever let those offices re-open......

rumor in NM

Rumor,rumor, rumor

2 airman at Hollaman AF base are said to be isolated and tested
that is near Alamogordo NM

Be Prepared

Also in NM... 2 teenagers in Socorro County
Boys, one 14 and one 15. Sent to CDC for testing. Samples, not the kids.  

[ Parent ]
News broadcast this am...
this morning on local Austin Tx news I heard (besides the 23 month old that died) that there was 2 critical patients in Tx, one a young boy, and another a pregnant woman. For the rest of the day I have heard nothing of these 2 cases....just disappeared, anyone else here about these 2 critical cases???

re the TX woman & child
CBC reports
"State health officials also confirmed a second child in Texas, another 23-month-old, has swine flu and is in critical care.

A pregnant woman in the state also "likely" has swine flu, said Dr. David Lakey, the commissioner of the Texas Department of State Health Services. The woman had an emergency caesarean section and is in critical condition. The baby is fine, said Lakey."

The 1918 flu was said to be particularly hard on pregnant women
I've read. I'm hoping that doesn't happen again.

[ Parent ]
Conspicuous by his absence from news
What has been heard from the acting Surgeon General of the United States, Rear Admiral Steven K. Galson, M.D., M.P.H. ?  Isn't this supposed to be his show?

Have all these politicos bypassed him?

It's not his show.
I'm sure he's playing a role in the background along with many, many others, but that office/position is not in charge of the government response.

Who is?  That's another interesting question.  I wonder whether it was potentially impacted by the empty chair at the Sec of DHHS.

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain

[ Parent ]
Very Interesting Article
Even though this is a news article I thought it best to put it under "Rumors".  I personally believe it is legitimate.  I believe controlling fear is now the governments highest priority right now.

Worse Than Thought
Media Misleading On Swine Flu Facts
Texas ER Doctor: Swine Flu Much Worse Than Feared
Leaked Email - 4-30-2009

The following email was written by Dr Marcus Gitterle, MD Christus Santa Rosa Health Care In New Braunfels, and leaked on the internet. Hospital spokespersons have authenticated the email, but refused further comment.

The email was sent to family members, and It speaks for itself.

It is printed here in original form, and has not been edited.

(Editor's note: Since this story first appeared, Christus Santa Rosa has clarified that the Doctor does not speak for them. Gitterle now says he meant no disrespect to the media. See quotes at the end of this story, below the original email.)


Please go to the website to read the email. I was unable to bring it over and post.


Interesting, indeed
That was two days ago.  He might be a little off on his prediction on national emergencies being declared that will cancel public gatherings, etc. but the facts he related are scary.

[ Parent ]
There seems to be some confusion and disagreement over whether the email has been edited.  The doctor in question has also said he "meant no disrespect" toward the media, etc.  So it's kind of tough to tell what's going on.

Thus far, the only outward evidence I've seen that the epidemic is being downplayed was the response to Biden's comments and the insistence on renaming the virus, and even those are understandable if the virus really isn't that bad.  Time will tell, I suppose.

[ Parent ]
It's not what they say, but what they do.  Lay aside everything you have heard from the government and the media and consider what has been done.  What conclusion do you draw?  I'm not saying we have been lied to necessarily, though I wonder.  But have we been told the whole story?  I think Biden's comment was illuminating, especially when considered with the announcement that they were no longer going to be testing every sample but rather only those which would give a better understanding of the geographical spread.  I think they are in collateral damage control mode.  The disease will do X damage.  The fear and panic will do Y damage.  They cannot control or affect X significantly since this disease is so transmissible, so they are attempting to control Y.

Just my opinion.  Decide for yourself and then act accordingly.

[ Parent ]
RE: on those same lines
The mayor of New York or someone in the health department said they had hundreds of people being tested.  That was on monday. Anyone hear if they were positive for H1N1?  And if they were negative, why wouldn't someone just say so.  Kind of makes me wonder that they are under reporting so as to not cause panic.  Any thoughts??

[ Parent ]
Moved on
They have probably moved on to suspect cases in other locations in the city and state.  Just guessing.

[ Parent ]
Dr. G
A simple Google search shows he is am emergency room dr in New Braunfels, Texas, so that much is true.

I would find it a little tough to not believe him, given his experience and the fact he knows what an email like that could do to his career. I know what pressure hospitals put on staff to keep their mouths shut about community issues.

Will wait and see, and continue community panflu education. In NJ I know not all symptomatic patients are being tested, so where is the surveillance?

It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.

[ Parent ]
They had an article about his letter to friends & patients in the New Braunfels paper today, He is indeed an ER physician there, and he has other research experience, This man is very credible and educated. He was just being honest in his assessment of the situation on what he has heard, unlike everyone else. The hospital has stated this is soley his opinion and the group of ER physicians he works for based in Austin has also stated the same.......TPTB (worried about money)...what can I say. I know some people in New Braunfrels who know this man and they say he is an excelent physician and very credible.

[ Parent ]
I trust Txnurse's assessment of this guy; he's from her/his neck of the woods.

It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.

[ Parent ]
RE: Dr.'s e-mail
He must know that it was printed in the paper. People in the community must have read it and asked him about it. If he didn't really write it why isn't he denying it?  

[ Parent ]
He didn't deny it
He sent the email to family and friends to educate them; I'm sure he didn't expect this to end up in MSM.

I won't mind having a chance to pick his brain about the situ in Texas.

It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.

[ Parent ]
RE: e-mail
So the question is whether this is really happening or the guy is crazy and making it up?  If he was making it up then wouldn't the hospital put him on leave? Would the health department print some kind of clarification? It all sounds kind of weird to me.

[ Parent ]
Personally, I believe him. No one given that level of responsibility (ER director) would make something like this up. I'd like to meet the guy.

It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.

[ Parent ]
Dr. G
I don't see what is so hard to believe about his email to friends and some patients, it was pretty straight forward, he didn't make any outrageous statements...just that there is more going on that is relayed to the general public, who on any of these threads doesn't think that? Read what the Mexican population think about what their gov. is telling them, they also wonder if is the whole truth. I do not know this Dr. personally but I do know someone who does, and she says he's a pretty stand up guy. I did not find his letter over alarming or scary, just a guy who is trying to tell some people he thinks they need to be paying attention and he gave some OTC med advice. Isn't that what we all do here? He's not denying he wrote this why should he? The New Braunfels paper stated the the hospital he works for and the ER group out of Austin that he works for deny that this is their thoughts...just his.  

[ Parent ]
Part of the problem . . .
I tried to talk to DH about some of the things this doctor had said.  DH Googled the doc, and found out about some of his, um, rather unusual beliefs in things such as "karmic surgery" or some such . . . as far as DH was concerned, that completed did it as far as this doctor's credibility.

He now won't listen to a word about what the man has said, because he's labeled him a crackpot.

Personally, I don't know what to think - just because someone is a bit cracked in one direction doesn't necessarily mean that everything that comes out of their mouth is to be discarded.

Still . . . it's a problem.  I'm surprised I haven't seen more about this posted anywhere on the forums.  Just Google the doc's name and add a common, then the word "karmic".

You'll find more than you care to read - I know I did - and some of it really does make him sound like he's lost somewhere out in left field.

[ Parent ]
Hmmm...what I read was not written by him, but about him.
Who knows if it's true?  Maybe the guy who wrote about the doctor's belief in "karmic surgery" was trying to discredit him.  I believe less than half of what I read on the internet, but I believe the doctor's e-mail.  It helps that both of the specific cases he referrences have been covered in news stories elsewhere.  Just sayin'...I'm taking the "karmic surgery" claim with a grain of salt.

Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute!

[ Parent ]
So am I . . .
But the point was that a whole lot of people, even one with whom I live, forget to add the salt . . .

I believe what the doctor said in his email too - partly because it correlates with what I already believed, and partly because I do think he's in a position to know the validity of what he said.

[ Parent ]
Lost out in left field
Clawdia....with the "lost out in left field" you really had me laughing for a couple of minutes!! That statement seems kind of ironic coming from one of us....I think if everyone in the world read this forum probably 98% of them would think WE are all "lost out in left field" LOL

[ Parent ]
Also lost out in left field!
ROFLMAO!! Good one, Tx nurse! God knows my family is convinced of that; one of my daughters is now barely speaking to me because of this (panflu concerns; what would I know?)

It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.

[ Parent ]
Of course -
One difference is that we're right and they're full of it.

I don't understand, I really don't.  I believed that once people were told the truth, they'd sit up and pay attention and at least begin to do the things that needed to be done.

Apparently not.  I can't find adequate words to convey how disappointed I am in most people.  The more disappointed I get, the more I prep . . . because the better I understand that nobody's going to take care of me and mine other than me and mine.  No cavalry, was said long ago . . . cavalry my behind - we can't even seem to get a mule team to haul some common sense from one place to another!

[ Parent ]
Boy, do I share that sentiment...
"...I can't find adequate words to convey how disappointed I am in most people...I understand that nobody's going to take care of me and mine other than me and mine..."

I only prep to make sure my grandsons have the best chance possible to survive anything;flood, faminine, panflu, whatever. I don't want these things to happen, yet I know that shi! happens, and no one will come and rescue us.

I don't believe in being a doomer and gloomer, merely a planner and survivor.  

It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.

[ Parent ]
My Thoughts Exactly
Clawdia & Grace RN, everytime I read either of your posts
I feel a kindred spirit....I think if we knew each oher we all would be good friends! Oh...and about the part where no one takes me seriously...I have 2 sisters who I have not spoken to in over 2 years now (not on my part, they think I'm crazy)I also have 1 sister & 1 brother who are on board. So I guess it's 50/50 in my family.

[ Parent ]
TXnurse -
I feel the same way about you and GraceRN both . . .

I would that it were a different world and we had the leisure to enjoy that friendship!

[ Parent ]
someday we will able to meet each other and laugh about..something!! Very kindred spirits, with similar family stories. Wonder what that says about healthcare workers???

It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.

[ Parent ]
Sounds great!
Just remember I'm not a healthcare worker, but I want to be included, anyway, lol!

[ Parent ]
I just assumed that!
..because you are very knowledgeable,have great common sense and have well thought out, solid posts on FW.

Well, of course you are included!

It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret.

[ Parent ]
Thanks, Grace
I feel better now . . . ;)

I was just a lowly secretary, medical transcriptionist, and odd person who conned every doc I ever worked for into letting me read every medical journal that came into the office - while I was on the clock and getting paid to read.  I wish I'd lived back in the old days when people learned skills by way of an apprenticeship.

I always thought this was funny - I had an appt. with a new specialist one time, so I sent him a history and physical that I had written myself.  I got a phone call from him at 7 o'clock one morning that started out . . . "Who ARE you, and do you really mean to tell me that you wrote this?" . . .

I hadn't even had any coffee yet, and probably sounded like an incoherent idiot while I tried to explain myself and convince him that I really had written it so he'd be better informed about my case when I saw him later that day.

[ Parent ]
Main Reason for under-reporting deaths
speculation only

"The economic blow is worse than the blow from [swine flu]," says Mario Sánchez Ruiz, president of a national confederation of service, trade, and tourism chambers.

He estimated the closures are causing losses of $36 million a day in the restaurant industry alone, while retailers and supermarkets are also experiencing pain.

"What's going to happen tomorrow? We can't live as a country like this, paralyzed," he says. "If this lasts four weeks, what's going to happen? No one will work for four weeks? The effect on the country would be fatal."  

To calm the wife buy cases of chocolate, to calm the husband buy cases of booze, and to calm the children...... heck the booze and chocolate should work.

There is a rumor posted over on the PFI rumor thread that one of the dental students has died.

Harvard Closures



Here is the latest on
Four more cases of swine flu confirmed in Massachusetts
May 1, 2009 04:23 PM Email

By Stephen Smith, Globe Staff

Four additional cases of swine flu have been confirmed in Massachusetts residents, state health officials said this afternoon.

Details of the infections will be provided during a press conference scheduled for 5 p.m. at the state Department of Public Health headquarters.

Two recuperating Lowell brothers have been the only confirmed swine flu victims so far in Massachusetts.

Boston health officials also announced this afternoon that as many as nine Harvard Dental School students may be infected with the disease.


Harvard student well: Harvard Provost
A mass e-mail was sent out at 6:49 pm today from Dr. Steven Hyman, the Provost of Harvard saying, "Our most recent information is that all nine of the Dental students with flu symptoms are recovering well." The wording is careful but it would be hard to construe this as a fatality unless there were a blatant cover-up, which I doubt.  

[ Parent ]
That's good
I'm glad it was a false rumor.

[ Parent ]
Inside info?
I know we have folks on the inside who are getting information that isn't in the mainstream.

Why aren't they updating us like they said they would?

Just rolling along, making waves and causing trouble...

Lots of reasons . . .
Could be some people claimed to have access to inside information who never did, just to get some attention.

Could be some people did have access to information but have since decided it's not in their best interests to post it.

Could be if some of that information proved to be damaging, they're so deep in a bunker that they're no longer concerned with posting on internet forums.

Lots of possible reasons . . .  

[ Parent ]
More reasons
Could also be that the insiders don't know any more than what has been posted here already.

[ Parent ]
interestingly, the inside-outside info might be the same
the leaked CDC directors report is what we already know. Score one for transparency, and though I'm sure CDC is unhappy about it, it actually reflects well on them.

[ Parent ]
Probably because to do so would result in dismissal or worse if caught.
I do not believe it should be expected that those in the know will post here or anywhere else about what they see or know.

I expect that information on the course of the disease and case fatality rates etc., is going to be very tightly controlled so that the "message" can be tightly controlled.

Watch what they do, not what they say.

[ Parent ]
County Tamiflu Supply
Our school nurse told me today that she attended a meeting with the county and found out that our county is only rec'ing 2200 doses of Tamiflu from the state/fed stockpile. She said that the pharmacies and local hospital have none and will only be allowed to get the drug if they have a lab confirmed case-unfortunately the docs in the small clinics here have very few cultures kits left (one office only had 9)in order to confirm H1N1. Great prepping by my county huh???  

Harris County Texas (Houston area)
Daughter in law works for an emergency clinic. She called tonight to tell me that they received a fax from Harris County that they are not to send in any more samples as Harris County is swamped. Great! We will never know the real numbers on this thing.

Falls Church VA Rumor
Rumor.  (I have no personal knowledge of this story.) Will be interesting to see if there's any truth to it.

8th graders from a school in CA where swine flu has been spreading were on a field trip to VA and Washington DC.  They flew to Dullus, visited a bunch of places (Williamsburg), and ended up in a hotel in Falls Church VA where first one child became sick, then a teacher, and then the entire busload of children.  

GetPandemicReady.org - non commerical website with practical ways for families to prepare.

RE: what's happening in one pediatric office
A friend of mine works in a pediatric office for more than 10 years.  She said they have a lot of sick kids coming in with flu and strep.  They only test for general flu and do not send samples anywhere.  So no swine flu testing.  She commented to me how busy they are which is very very unusual.  This is camp form time.  She has never seen so many sick kids at this time of year.  

location Ruth? n/t

To calm the wife buy cases of chocolate, to calm the husband buy cases of booze, and to calm the children...... heck the booze and chocolate should work.

[ Parent ]
RE: pediatric office
Suburb of chicago

'The Hills'' Heidi Pratt hospitalized in Costa Rica

Comment: Could be swine flu?

So, last we saw Spencer and Heidi, they had returned to the Costa Rican jungle and were begging to rejoin the cast of "I'm a Celebrity... Get Me Out of Here!"

Blaming "the Devil" for convincing them to quit just a couple days before, they said the game was all about winning money for their respective charities and pleaded for another shot. NBC agreed to let their former cast mates make the decision, but only if Speidi made it through an entire night locked in a dark isolation chamber crawling with rats, snakes and gigantic bugs.

So, yeah, I guess they didn't make it...

According to a tweet from Spencer's sister, Stephanie Pratt, Heidi was rushed to the hospital today and has an IV in her arm after being locked away for three days with no food or water.

Oh boy.

Hope NBC had Speidi sign an airtight contract that protects the network from lawsuits 'cause there's no doubt Spencer's scheming wheels are turning right about now. I'm quite sure he's weighing all the ways he might be able to profit from his wife's illness...

Anyway, there are no official reports as to what exactly is wrong with Heidi, though rumors are circulating that she has a stomach virus.

Her family is currently en route to Costa Rica to see her.

vaccine rumor
I heard that GSK is in discussion with the UK government about the possibility of delivering part of its order as nonadjuvanted vaccine, separate from the adjuvant.  

I don't know exactly what this means because even with the adjuvanted vaccine, the adjuvant is packaged in a separate vial as the vaccine antigen, to be mixed just before use.  So the UK government could theoretically just use the vaccine vial.  If the rumor is correct, it may be that they are considering bulk packaging in ways that do not include the adjuvant.  

Also, don't know if they will vary the formulation dosage because as currently formulated, their vaccine contains 3.8ug antigen in 0.25ml, to be mixed with 0.25ml of adjuvant to make a 0.5ml vaccination volume.  If used in nonadjuvanted form, at 15ug, will require 1ml, which is just about acceptable volume-wise, cos larger volumes are problematic.  Or they could formulate it at 15ug per 0.5ml (ie double the current concentration) just like the seasonal flu.

The above are all speculative, except for the first sentence which is a rumor that I heard.  

All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

swine flu deaths
This is unverified but it appears from those reviewing the fatal cases, that most of the patients do have severe (as opposed to mild) pre-existing conditions, including heart disease, HIV, cancer patients on chemotherapy, etc.  The asthma cases are said to be severe chronic asthma with signs of chronic lung damage, not the run-of-the-mill asthma where most of the sufferers get episodic attacks that subside fairly quickly with treatment, and no symptoms in between attacks and no lung damage.

Whether and how many of those who are said to be 'previously healthy' turn out to have undiagnosed hidden conditions revealed at autopsy, is yet to be determined.  There is some speculation that some of the very obese subjects said to be 'previously healthy' are likely to have undiagnosed conditions such as heart disease.  

All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

It might be hard to pin down the obesity connection,
because the reason it's unhealthy to be obese is that serious medical conditions can develop because of it.  If someone is obese but otherwise healthy (if they can really tell if they're healthy) then neither the flu nor the extra weight would bother them.  (I'm trying to be logical, not that I know the medical side here.)  It's easy to measure blood pressure and blood sugar, but the condition of the cardiovascular system is hidden, unless testing and scans are done.  IOW, can anyone relax because they can assume they have no risk factors?  If you're young enough, you might have a cytokine storm.  If you're older, you may have atherosclerosis or an early stage of heart disease or diabetes.

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

[ Parent ]
I'm referring to autopsy findings n/t

All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...

[ Parent ]
oops, guess I missed SusanC's second paragraph the first time around. n/t

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

[ Parent ]
I think
that the Rumors Diary should be bumped, considering what is happening in Ukraine.

Not a rumor, but today I sat at a train track crossing for a very long time.  It was a coal train.  As I sat there I remembered some of the discussion here on the FluWiki concerning how the electric generating stations would probably be stockpiling coal in very large amounts if a pandemic developed.  It was a bit of a sobering thought as I watched coal car after coal car pass by.

It is winter, and coal trains usually are very long anyway, so I don't think it was anything out of the normal.  But, it did dredge up out of memory all the discussion concerning pandemic repercussions.  Ukraine has me thinking along these lines I reckon.

Remember the mantra (it goes way back here on the FluWiki):

It ain't what they say, it's what they do...

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