(Emergency) Fuel Heat

Thank You, Will

Will,

After reading your important and informative .pdf last spring, I bought the book for my wife.  (Gotta have that hard copy.)  We deliberated all summer over the best way to get through some cold winter months and in September we finally finished our heating preps. 

Here in the Chicago suburbs, we knew that wood was not an option.  The thought of sending smoke signals to hundreds of deperate people just seemed wrong.  Apart from that, how do you keep people from stealing your wood while you sleep?

Anyway, we were leaning toward kerosene heaters when my wife's research into propane prices led her to a steal of a deal.  We found a bulk propane distributor who was trying to unload a large volume of odd-size propane bottles--14 pounders.  To my wife's surprize, the cost was only $10 each, including both the bottle and the propane.  Since these were fitted with the overfill prevention device, the net weight of the propane was 11.5 pounds.  She bought 25 bottles and brought them home in our van.

With the fuel problem resolved, we invested in a pair of Mr Heater Big Buddies, which have outputs of 4,000, 9,000, or 18,000 BTUs.  These will be our primary heaters.  (Variable output is not something that kerosene heaters handle very well.)  Our secondary heaters are 4 Coleman Black Cats with outputs of 3,000 BTUs.  We have 6 adapter hoses and 6 in-line filters, so we can run each heater from either 1 pound disposables or bulk bottles. 

Apart from the exceptional price on propane, two key factors in our decision-making were the vesatility of propane (heaters, stoves, lanterns) and the possible need to heat multiple locations simultaneously.

By the way, your well-worn book now has a place of honor on our coffeee table.  Thank you for all your good advice.

You are running out of time.


http://tinyurl.com/37bl45

---

by: Dr Dave @ Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 10:21:17 AM UTC

and Dr. Dave's monograph is here...

http://www.newfluwik...

now hosted on the new Forum.

---

by: DemFromCT @ Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 12:57:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Smart Selection

Mr. Buddy Heaters are a good choice, especially with the automatic low-oxygen shut off.  Any additional insulation and infiltration improvements you can make will not only require less propane, they'll save you money year-in, year-out.  Window quilts, roman blinds, and other insulating window treatments (double/triple honeycomb blinds, for example) also help greatly. Do you plan to close off any rooms?

---

by: Will @ Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 00:09:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

How Much to Heat?

Will,

Our climate ranges from the high 90s in the summer to well below zero in the winter.  This presents certain challenges, so our plan is to heat only as much space as necessary.  We live in a 2 story house with a basement, so it would be necessary to partition the space if we must SIP during very cold months.  For this challenge, we will certainly close off several rooms and we will install insulating film on the windows.  We have 4 mil plastic, furring strips, and duct tape to help with partitions and weatherproofing.  We also have a tent that will hold all 4 of us, so if we place it in one of the bedrooms and cover it with an extra blanket or two, we should be able to sleep through bad nights without heat. 

For day-to-day winter living, we will dress for the great outdoors, but we will try to heat our south-facing living room to about 50 degrees.  That should be tolerable.

Ultimately, we do want to keep the house at a bearable temperature, but we must also plan for a sick room.  If someone becomes ill, we will need to isolate them in a room that is reasonably warm.  That is one reason why we have invested in so many heaters.

Fuel storage is a big issue in a cold climate like ours, and with the duration and severity of the pandemic being so unpredictable, we really feel quite vulnerable to the cold.  However, the longer the grid stays up, the long our fuel will last. 

You are running out of time.


http://tinyurl.com/37bl45

---

by: Dr Dave @ Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 00:39:45 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Dr Dave...

Can you live in your basement?  Underground keeps the temperature much more tolerable and constant, summer and winter.  We lost power for a few days this summer during an East Coast (read: high humidity) heat wave.  The only place that was tolerable was the basement.  During the day we went outside a lot, but it was a great pleace to sleep at night.  While it feels a bit cavelike (ours has no windows) it would require less fuel and body heat to keep warm. 

Also: don't forget to turn off water to parts of the house that are shut off when the temp will be below freezing.  The last thing you need is a pipe bursting. 

---

by: LauraB @ Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 02:41:11 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Basement Living

LauraB,

The basement is a cool place to sleep in the summer when the power goes out, but I don't know if I could stay there for very long in the winter.  I guess we would just have to see if the basement remains appreciably warmer than the upper floors.  I have assumed that any south-facing room would be a comfortable 50 degrees (F) during the day, but I don't know about the night--and I really do not want to find out...

You are running out of time.


http://tinyurl.com/37bl45

---

by: Dr Dave @ Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 09:48:26 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Safety of Alternative Heat

My major concern in choosing alternative heat was safety and not violating any local laws or having a fire that would breach my homeowner's insurance. Although I didn't specifically check my local code, I read somewhere that you should not store any more than 2 20lb tanks of propane in a detached garage, but can store up to 60 gal of kerosene in a detached garage. We are in town, so there is no way I can store fuel outside in my yard.

So I bought a 10,800 btu kerosene heater and have 20 gal kerosene on hand so far. I am still considering buying a small propane heater and getting 2 tanks of propane as another backup in case we need to set up a sick room.

We have a lot of south-facing windows, and even our 3-season porch becomes warm enough on some days for the children to play out there, so I'm hoping for a lot of sunny winter days (not likely).

I was curious if we have any firefighters here who would like to comment on safe fuel storage and using alternative heat safely.

---

by: tjclaw1 @ Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 00:59:19 AM UTC

The old site

had a few threads about safely storing different fuels.  And you are right - different towns have different regs so it's good to check.  If I could only figure out how to move stuff over I'd do it, but I vividly remember those threads so they are somewhere. 

---

by: LauraB @ Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 02:43:33 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Fuel Storage

tjclaw,

Under normal circumstances I am a pretty good citizen, but I am viewing the pandemic as abnormal circumstances.  Without a doubt, I am storing more far more propane (300+ pounds), Coleman fuel (12 gallons), and gasoline (120 gallons) than the codes allow, but I have quietly phased into survial mode and pretty soon the codes will not much matter.

You are running out of time.


http://tinyurl.com/37bl45

---

by: Dr Dave @ Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 09:41:05 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Alternate fuel storage

First, find out if your local ordinance actually restricts the amount of propane you can store.

If you need outdoor storage, consider using a shed, especially if one already exists.  If that is not feasible, consider a large outdoor storage container that is far more economical, and handy for garden tools and the like.

---

by: Will @ Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 13:47:36 PM UTC

safe?

I have a container like that. I was wondering if it was safe for gasoline storage as it seems fairly airtight i.e. contents stay dry in rainy and snowy weather. Wouldn't there be a possibility of gas fume build-up in the storage container if it was filled with gasoline or propane containers? Also, my backyard faces south with no shady areas. Would the sun beating down on the storage container cause a problem?

---

by: Irene @ Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 14:20:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Safe Fuel Storage

Irene,

As long as your shed is detached and drafty, direct sun will not have much effect.  However, if you can smell fuel odors when you open your shed, you need to do some detective work.

You are running out of time.


http://tinyurl.com/37bl45

---

by: Dr Dave @ Thu Nov 30, 2006 at 17:11:14 PM UTC

Ensure ventilation

As long as you have sufficient ventilation, there should be no problem.  Drilling several holes on opposite sides should promote a minimum amount of air flow.  If you have containers that give off fumes, then replace them with newer containers.  Don't cause an explosion because of a few dollars.

---

by: Will @ Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 02:24:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

* sigh *

I was cleaning out my garage last year and decided to give away my square box style composter with lid. It would have been perfect to store fuel as the composter had horizontal slits top to bottom on all 4 sides to maximize ventilation of decaying garden material.

---

by: Irene @ Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 02:48:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Leak Test

A few years ago I had a 20 pound tank that I though might be leaking fuel.  The valve assembly passed the soap test, but I could still detect a slight odor.  So, I put the tank in a garbage bag, burped out the excess air, closed it up with a rubber band, and waited.  After a couple of days, the garbage bag had sort of balooned out, indicating to me that it was being inflated from a propane leak.  With my suspicions confirmed, I put this leaky tank on my grill, used up the fuel, and then scrapped the empty tank.

You are running out of time.


http://tinyurl.com/37bl45

---

by: Dr Dave @ Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 13:44:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Mr. Buddy and More

Northern Tool has the Mr. Buddy Heater on sale now for about $70.

I have a question for you-all, too... there are of course firm warnings on it to NEVER EVER use a 20lb tank inside.  Is this because: 1) it could blow up and kill everybody (and  how does that happen?) 2) it could leak and asphyxiate everybody, 3) that's what the lawyers said to say and who would take it seriously in an emergency?

---

by: Northstar @ Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 22:19:07 PM UTC

Mr Buddy Safety

The warning about the 20 pound tank should be viewed as one would view the 2 week prep recommendation at www.pandemicflu.gov.  (Lowest common denominator.)  I have two Big Buddies and a whole lot of bulk tanks.  I have no reservations about using them indoors.

You are running out of time.


http://tinyurl.com/37bl45

---

by: Dr Dave @ Fri Dec 01, 2006 at 23:51:29 PM UTC

Dynamite equivalent

I've seen informal references to Bic lighters being equivalent to 1/4 of a stick of dynamite, so anyone considering use of a 20 lb propane tank within a house needs to exercise the utmost care. Extension hoses are available for those who would prefer them.

---

by: Will @ Sat Dec 02, 2006 at 22:21:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Extension Hoses

Mr Heater makes a 12 foot extension hose and Coleman an 8 footer.

You are running out of time.


http://tinyurl.com/37bl45

---

by: Dr Dave @ Sat Dec 02, 2006 at 22:54:50 PM UTC

Propane extension hoses

You can also go to most any RV dealer or propane dealer and have a suitable propane extension hose made to whatever length you'd like.

---

by: Kim @ Sun Dec 03, 2006 at 03:50:53 AM UTC

Extension Hoses

Kim,

Maybe yes, maybe no.  For this particular appliance, not just any LP extension hose will work.  Although the end that connects to the LP tank is universal, the end that connects to the appliance is not.  If you are using a bulk LP tank with any appliance that was designed for the 1 pound disposable bottles (such as a Mr Heater or a Coleman Black Cat), your hose needs to have a special fitting that is known as a swivel 1" - 20 male throwaway cylinder thread.
 

You are running out of time.


http://tinyurl.com/37bl45

---

by: Dr Dave @ Sun Dec 03, 2006 at 08:49:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

emergency heat - real life case study

Oregon has recently been hit with some storms and as a result there are massive power outages. The news has reported large numbers of people without heat and several deaths due to people bringing barbecue grills inside. (Also, several fires due to candles).

This clearly underscores the need for preparation.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

---

by: lakeman @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 at 06:08:44 AM UTC

and education

can the schools tell the children; they can go home and get after the parents to not use cooking/heating/lighting in unsafe manners.

(Remember that schoolgirl, who recognized a tsunami was about to kill everyone on the beach?)

---

by: crfullmoon @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 at 12:56:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

re: education

I know my son does. He comes home from kindergarten and tells me I have the firewood too close to the house. Even though it is plenty far from the house.

So, while the fire department, is doing some great community outreach at his school, it just isn't the schools job to send children to educate every ignorant fool. I'm sure that the grill and the bag of charcoal both came with warnings about use indoors. Desperate people will tempt fate.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

---

by: lakeman @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 at 22:48:50 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

note the carbon monoxide story

from the engineers and the experienced, a word about indoor vs outdoor devices?

http://www.newfluwik...

This seems like a good place to leave a note.

---

by: DemFromCT @ Mon Dec 18, 2006 at 22:59:23 PM UTC

Send them over here

To keep from losing valuable information across many different diaries, I believe it is best to discuss information such as this in one place. Since this is the Emergency Fuel Heat diary, point people here to discuss this topic.  That way, the most pertinent information will stand a higher chance of making it to the Wiki.

---

by: Will @ Wed Dec 20, 2006 at 14:47:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]