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N294S - evidence of tamiflu-resistant H5N1 in Egypt?

by: SusanC

Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 23:37:56 PM EST


( - promoted by Bronco Bill)

What standard of science is the WHO practicing?  And what message is that sending out to flu skeptics?  And all of us, of course...
SusanC :: N294S - evidence of tamiflu-resistant H5N1 in Egypt?
Tamiflu (Oseltamivir) is currently the antiviral of choice for the treatment of human H5N1 infections.  It is also stockpiled by many countries in preparation for a possible pandemic from the virus, whether for treatment, containment, protection of essential personnel, or prophylaxis in contacts.  Hence, any emergence of a tamiflu-resistant strain is a development that, rightly, evokes significant concern and requires the closest scrutiny and investigation.

Events of the past few days have caused me to be concerned not just about the virus or whether it is tamiflu-resistant, but about whether WHO as an institution, its officers, and main-stream media are doing their jobs properly with regards to the responsible dissemination of credible information based on sound scientific methods and analysis.

First of all, a little background science.  To demonstrate that a particular virus has a particular mutation, scientists have to determine the genetic sequence of the virus.  This however, does not tell us whether the virus is resistant to a drug.  To determine that, one needs to do either a NA enzyme inhibition assay, or animal experiments, as described here http://www.newfluwik...

Having said that, if previous studies have consistently shown, in a particular virus genome, a consistent and statistically significant correlation between a mutation and a specific drug resistance, then one need not do sensitivity assays in each patient, and assume the sample was resistant if the mutation is present. In addition, demonstration of resistance in the laboratory does not necessarily imply that the virus is drug resistant in actual clinical infections.  You also need examination of clinical information to determine that.

Let's look at the current case in point, starting with the official WHO update released on January 18th.  It states,

Viruses with a genetic mutation, linked in laboratory testing to moderately reduced susceptibility to oseltamivir, have been discovered in two persons previously reported  with H5N1 infections in Egypt

At first sight, most people would assume that "linked in laboratory testing to moderately reduced susceptibility to oseltamivir" implies laboratory testing has indeed been done on these two specific samples, and these have shown moderately reduced susceptibility.  Indeed, the WHO press release goes on to say that

Confirmatory testing and genetic sequencing was done at NAMRU-3 and at two WHO Collaborating Centres located in Atlanta, USA and London, UK.
and
Current laboratory testing suggests that the level of reduced susceptibility is moderate.

However, note that in none of these statements was it made explicit that such tamiflu sensitivity tests had indeed been done on samples from the Egyptian patients.  Why is that important?

Let's examine the 'evidence' for tamiflu-resistance in the particular mutation discovered in these 2 patients - N294S. 

This mutation was described in a Vietnamese girl in 2005, (details here http://www.newfluwik...) who made a full recovery after the initial low (prophylactic) dose was increased to the dose recommended currently for seasonal flu.

However, the clinical significance of this mutation is uncertain, given that

  • the girl's symptoms never got worse than 'fever and severe cough', they showed clinical response to the normal dose of tamiflu, and she made an uneventful recovery
  • the change in susceptibility of N294S clones (measured by IC50) was very small, indeed close to marginal (7.1 - 12.5 nM) compared to normal range (0.1 - 10nM)
  • there were additional clones of virus with the H274Y mutation, which showed a far higher degree of resistance (IC50 range 763 - 1088 nM), which could have accounted for (assuming it was significant) the initial failure to respond to the prophylactic dose

So, that's one case.  (ie n=1)

In addition, the WHO also said

This mutation has previously been identified in Viet Nam in one case in 2005. Moreover, these mutations are not associated with any known change in the transmissibility of the virus between humans.

What it did NOT say, however, was that transmission studies based on this particular mutation has or has not ever been done.  I have done a series of searches, and the only NA inhibitor resistance transmission studies were based on several other mutations and in different NA subtypes, H274Y in N1 (transmissible), E119V and R292K in N2 (not transmissible).

The WHO statement is technically accurate in that N294S is not associated with any known change in transmissibility, but we don't know whether such lack of association is because no one ever did any research on it!

Adding to the confusion, let's look at some MSM headlines.  If you have stayed with this diary so far, you will now be able to observe the difference in nuance and meaning.

NY Times
New Strain of Bird Flu Found in Egypt Is Resistant to Antiviral Drug

USA Today
Bird flu mutations in Egypt suggest antiviral resistance

Reuters
Moderately Tamiflu-resistant bird flu in Egypt--WHO

(Here's a test: Which of these 3 headlines would you say describes the situation most accurately?)

And the words of some experts:

"What we've confirmed is that H5N1 viruses isolated from two patients in recent cases in Egypt both showed this so-called 294S change," Keiji Fukuda, coordinator for the WHO's global influenza programme, told Reuters.  "But based on what we see from laboratory tests, we expect any reduction in sensitivity or increase in resistance is going to be on the moderate side,"

"What the resistance tests look for are markers associated with antiviral resistance," though finding the markers did not necessarily mean Tamiflu would not work, said Dr. Angus Nicoll, flu director at the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control.

The development "is not a big surprise, but it certainly is disheartening," said Dr. Anne Moscona, an expert on flu treatment at Weill Cornell Medical College.

"Based on the information we have, we can't yet rule out human-to-human transmission," said Dr. Fred Hayden, a WHO bird flu and anti-virals expert. "We need to better understand the dynamics of this outbreak."

But the grand prize should go to the WHO spokesman himself

"Given the information we have, we don't see any broad public health implications," said Dick Thompson, a spokesman for the organization.

despite the fact that:

Mr. Thompson was unsure which Egyptian cluster of flu infections the patients were part of.


So What do we know?

  1. 2 people died
  2. they were both given tamiflu
  3. they found the N294S mutation in samples from both, 2 days after starting tamiflu
  4. there was a third confirmed case in the cluster who also died


What do we not know?  Here are some but by no means all the questions that remain unanswered about this business.

  1. did they do any tamiflu sensitivity assays on the samples?
  2. has there been other reports of N294S apart from the single case in Vietnam?
  3. if yes, did the clinical picture and/or laboratory assays suggest tamiflu resistance?
  4. is this h2h?
  5. have they taken any samples from birds in the area?
  6. did any of these and other avian sequences show N294S?
  7. did they sequence the virus from the third patient? 
  8. If yes, did that sequence contain the N294S OR NOT? 
    As in the case of transmission studies above, despite the report from NY Times, (probably a la Thompson?) that  "The resistant strain did not spread to anyone else, including a third family member who also had avian flu." we cannot assume this is accurate until the WHO confirms whether a sequence analysis has been done and what it shows.
  9. could this be sampling/laboratory/specimen labelling error?
  10. did either one or both patients take any medication prior to hospitalization?
  11. if yes, is someone tracing the medication history to find out whether they might have taken tamiflu prior to hospitalization?

Need I say more about the importance of good science and clear accurate communications?  Including what we DON'T know?

Can the WHO start treating the citizens of the world as grown-ups please?

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You're not the only confused by all of this
Granted, I am not as well versed in the science as you are.  I do my best!  Everything I've read on the Egyptian cases contradicts the last thing I read and so on.  Nobody seems to tell the same story twice.  My concerns are:

1). Announcing this "resistance" when we don't even know if it is "resistance"  It's iresponsible to announce such a conclusion when it isn't clear.  If gov'ts start hearing that, they may reconsider stockpiling. 

2) Basing the "resistance" conclusion on two, possibly three samples.  Obviously quite a small sample size and one which is questionable at best anyway.  And have there been any similar results from other countries? 

I never thought that Tamiflu would be the magic bullet and that resistance/insufficeint dosages may mean it is useless in a pandemic.  But right now there isn't much else in the arsenal that gov'ts can easily get their heads around - it's a physical, concerete thing that they can hold, grasp, spend money on.  Clearly most of them are afraid of "panic" so don't want to fully inform the public.  If they can't educate/help people to prepare, they better make sure they have warehouses full of the stuff when angry mobs come pounding on the door.


exactly
The point is, if this is real in vivo tamiflu resistance, there are huge policy implications to be addressed asap.

If not, the recent headlines will be used as examples of scaremongering by the pandemic-deniers.  As I said before, the Chicken Little's will appear again!



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Really, it's too late to give advice to WHO
but the entire answer to all this confusion is simple.  WHO needs to consistently be open and honest.  If all the sequences were on the table, that would probably clear up a lot of the questions above (and they are all good questions).  If WHO provided the same kind of data-rich country "Situation Updates" that they used to provide, a tremendous amount of confusion and conjecture could be avoided. Clarity could be reached via the free sharing of viral sequences, patient onset dates, treatment programmes, etc.  It's all pretty simple. 

The news is probably, considering H5N1's encroach, is not going to be good.  But putting all the information that IS available out there would be very helpful in preventing the confusion and speculation that now exist and shortly may be in full bloom (this latest bit of confusion may pale in comparison).  The fewer bits of critical information WHO gives out, and the more critical the situation becomes, the more dangerous the situation will be for confusion, speculation, and outright error, to occur. 

Anybody who has hung around a bureaucracy knows that when things get tough, bureaucracies tend to hunker down.  They clam up.  That's really not a good solution.  When someone does break the silence, it is often surprisingly tense in tone (similar to the statements surrounding the N294S), as it reflects the tension of what is going on behind the scenes. 

The answer to this whole problem is for WHO to put all their cards on the table.  Share every shred of data they have. It's still not to late for them to do so.  If they do, they'll save lives.

On the other hand, if they cannot do that, if their relationships and agreements with countries does not allow for this, then they need to be very clear about that too.  The general public thinks of WHO as a guardian of their personal health.  They think of these humanitarian agencies as if they had the same obligations as their personal physicians.  They really believe that WHO and other entities like them have their own, personal, best interest in mind. 

Unfortunately, WHO is a bit more complicated in terms of its makeup.  It needs to clearly articulate this fact, and the fact that its hands are often tied by the nations it deals with.  We all understand that MI5 is an organization that will not, and cannot, be expected to share its most important data and information with us.  We accept that.  We accept that some degree of secrecy is necessary for MI5 to effectively do its job.  We get it.

We don't necessarily understand or accept any suspicion of secrecy on the part of the WHO because we view them very differently from how we view MI5.  We trust, on some level, that MI5 is doing what it needs to do to ensure our security.  We know not to ask questions that won't be answered. 

It seems to me that WHO has tried to take on the aura and mission of an MI5, without having the benefit of its efforts being popularized by a generation of James Bond movies.  That's a tough sell.  Why we should allow WHO to have the same level of trust and secrecy as MI5 is just not clear.  MI5, we understand, works for the British people.  Who is WHO working on behalf of?  That's not a rhetorical question, but a real one.  And it's one that many organizations ask themselves as they evolve. 

It is simply clear that, as an international public service agency (in the minds of most people) WHO has an obligation to serve the public, and has no reason to withhold useful information of any sort (sequences, onset dates, contact testing, surveillance results).  If WHO has, in reality, a more proscribed freedom in its activities, then WHO needs to spell that out.  And, subsequently, nations that have depended on it for this vital information have to engage in efforts to obtain it, on their own (diplomatic enticements, etc.).  I think that people would be respectful of WHO's political limitations, if they were described. 

The one thing that I think people find unacceptable is to think that the one international public health entity that we rely on might decide, on its own, to be less than forthcoming with us.  We can understand the political limitations if they are described - they are real.  But lacking the presence of that limitation, we do expect full disclosure of any facts that are pertinent to the health of the people on this planet.  Right now, it is very unclear where this restriction on information is coming from.  If that matter is not cleared up, and we don't have possession of the full set of data, and we don't even know that WHO cannot speak freely, then more of the confusion described above will greet us down the road.

Of course, my advice is a day late, and a dollar short, as they say.  WHO could still change, but it's hard to turn an ocean liner on a dime.  But, if they're listening,my advice would be that they start and end every day bringing as much clarity and data to the subject of H5N1 as is humanly possible, and to do that beginning now. The measure  in Geneva every day, between 9:00 and 5:00,  should be: "how much clarity did we bring to this subject today, and how many people did we share that clarity with?"  It really wouldn't be such a bad goal.

WHO does need to know that its statements and actions do have ramifications.  For me, it meant scampering ahead of this NY Times article as it was released around midnight, to explain it so that my town's mayor, who was well on her way to providing her critical workers with a supply of Tamiflu, (after her regional and state health departments had let the opportunity to join the Federal discounted contract Tamiflu buy last month expire without mentioning it), that she really still needed to move ahead with those plans and order the Tamiflu, regardless of NY Times headlines.  But I'm pretty knowledgeable about all this.  Lots of other mayors would have read that article, as it appeared in a publication many rely on, and would have felt and decided differently.  That lack of clarity might cause others to make decisions they really are not fully informed about.  And I guess that's what a lot of our appeals always come down to:  fully informing as a priority mission. 


[ Parent ]
Well said, Pixie
WHO does need to know that its statements and actions do have ramifications.

although I suspect that they do know.  But knowing is not the same as doing...

MI5 & WHO: that's an interesting analogy. ;-)

I do agree that it is to everyone's benefit for public agencies to be clearly defined and caricatured for the general public.  WHO is a strange entity (as with all the UN agencies) in that it purports to operate under idealistic principles that the nature of international governance actually does not allow.  Major problems can and do arise out of these 'congenital' institutional and structural flaws. 

For once, though, I don't buy institutional limitations as the explanation for this charade.  It looks to me more like an operational mishap, albeit happening in a self-generated high-profile fashion.  I am only guessing here but leadership transition often results in varying degrees of confusion and/or communication breakdowns.  If that is the case, I hope it is temporary and Margaret Chan has the competence to get everybody's act together.  We cannot afford to waste more time on the urgent business of getting the world ready for the next pandemic. 



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Why did NAMRU-3 pre-leaked the info partially
to some one expected to blow it out of proportion, some one who has earned a reputation from the Rimouski fiasco? Was there an agenda behind this? Was it one of distraction from Indonesia (silent NAMRU-2)?

Dick Thompson clearly is no scientist, taking or misunderstanding the guidance of NAMRU-3 and/or CDC reference labs, and made those confusing remarks.  Then other people at the WHO had to jump in, but couldn't directly contradict the official communication person, and therefore unable to explain it clearly.

Too bad the only thing people remember now is the headline: H5N1 is Tamiflu resistant, which is still not proven by the Egyptian cluster.  The dosage was simply taken too little too late, compared to the Vietnam case who recovered completely.

As for M230I, wonder why all the chatter stopped? It's junk science, debunked here:

http://www.newfluwik...

FWIW, watch Indonesia first, China (possibly) second and Egypt third.

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.


well, that's speculation
even beyond speculating about whether the virus was tamiflu-resistant.  ;-)

I'd suggest that we stay with discussion on what is officially announced or published. 

Rumors can go on the rumors thread.  Thanks!



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Indo, China, Egypt
I don't know if I agree with your priority. What is happening in these countries may cause a pandemic but by different mechanisms.  eg new reassortants, ?hidden reservoir,  ?poultry vaccines, ?genetic profile, etc.  There are too many unknown but important elements, some of them we can do with information about, such as the virology of H5N1 in cats.  There are other unknowns that are not anybody's fault,  just the nature of the problem.  But any of these factors can suddenly make a particular country, even one that so far has seen few problems, eg Korea, become the major hot-spot!



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Could they have done a sensitivity assay(s)?
Specimens from the most recent three Egyptian cases tested positive for avian influenza A (H5N1) virus by the country's Central Public Health Laboratory. The virus was also detected in specimens from two of the three patients by the U.S. Naval Medical Research Unit No.3 (NAMRU-3), WHO said.

The samples will be sent to a laboratory that works with WHO for further testing including characterization of the virus, the Geneva-based agency said.

http://www.bloomberg...

Could the "further testing" referred to here have included a sensitivity assay(s)?  How long do these things take?  Would there have been enough time?  The 2 victims in Egypt died in late Dec (27? 28?) and the 'Tamiflu resistance' story came out on on Jan 18.  'Nuff time?

Proud FAF-er.


I don't know if they did sensitivity assays
that is the biggest question that the WHO needs to answer.

Also, what the WHO has not said is whether they have been able to isolate the virus from the third patient.  The above announcement from 3 weeks ago only tells us that they got isolates from 2 at that point.  Surely by now they would have either succeeded or failed to get a virus isolate.  If they do have it, then they need to tell us explicitly whether that virus has the same mutation.

But sensitivity assay results still hold the key to this whole problem.  If they haven't done them, they should do them ASAP.  The following flow chart that I made shows why.

From the last row of boxes, there are 3 possibilities:

  1. The mutation happened in one human subject, with subsequent h2h.
  2. The mutation happened separately in each human subject, with no h2h.
  3. The mutation exists in an avian or other non-human host, with significant ability to transmit to humans (since there are > 1 confirmed human N294S)

These are all bad options, irrespective of whether there was any tamiflu ingestion before the samples were taken.

Therefore, the key question still is:

Does N294S in H5N1 confer oseltamivir resistance to a degree that is likely to be clinically significant to patient outcome?




All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
I see tier two of your chart becoming rapidly inconsequential.
If the virus has developed the ability to rapidly form Tamiflu resistence, the patient outcomes look the same to me. The patients were only treated for 48 hours before the resistence was found.  How is that better than having the resistent virus "on the wing" in birds?  Or am I just stating the obvious, and need a bonk on the forehead? 

[ Parent ]
it does make a difference
and no, you don't need a bonk on your forehead ;-)

Having a drug resistant virus in a patient, especially if it could (and most likely was, and yes, it can happen within 48 hours) have been due to tamiflu intake, could mean that we need to treat patients earlier, with higher doses, combination of drugs, etc, and you would have a different outcome.

Having a drug resistant virus in a bird, ie before it gets into a human subject, means that no matter how early you take the drug, its not going to work.

All this assuming true clinical drug resistance, which as I said, is not proven in this instance.

In addition, if this mutation happened in one or more of the patients in the cluster, assuming no one else had caught that mutant virus and survived, that strain is gone.  Dead-ended, as we say, rather unfortunately.

Having it in a bird means its still around, waiting for the next victim.

Now, other viruses can still develop the same mutation, or they may not.  But that's a chance we take anyway.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
we should pray that it was an error
either from the hospital where the samples were taken or from the Egyptian lab.  ie only 1 patient had the N294S mutation



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
I am guessing
that they probably did, and the preliminary results showed a mild to moderate increase of IC50, and they are now running a multitude of tests to determine exactly how significant this might be, aka the answer to my question above, in red.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Thanks, SusanC
I hope they do manage to get an isolate from the 3rd victim -- if not, there's no getting additional samples now....  :/

Proud FAF-er.

[ Parent ]
Further testing on the Egypt samples
This sure sounds like further testing is being done on the recent isolates from Egypt.  This is a press release from the Egyptian Ministry of Health dated Jan 18 -- the date of the release of the "Tamiflu resistance" story:

Google-translated from Arabic:

The Ministry of Health is conducting tests developed for all samples of avian influenza virus, January 18, 2007

The Ministry of Health and Population in collaboration with the World Health Organization and the Joint Research Navy (Namro 3) and the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta (CDC) of the United States, conducting advanced tests of all samples of avian influenza virus which had been isolated cases of human infection, which took place in Egypt in order to determine the genetic map and a knowledge of developments that may occur in and the consequent occurrence.

Yani, in the framework of the Ministry's efforts to follow up the developments, which could arise on the epidemiological situation of the avian influenza virus and the belief regional and global role in the fight against this disease.

On that basis, the study shows that genetic viruses isolated from patients who died of avian influenza last month that there had been breakthroughs can be associated with H5N1 drug resistance Altamiflo.

Because of this development should be considered scientifically accurate communication has been the World Health Organization to study the significance of the presence of these mutations, dimensions and impact on the global and national efforts to combat avian influenza disease has been reached to the following points:

1-We need more time to analyze this matter and study the various facts concerning him.

2-Is H5N1 for the continuous jumps since he appeared until now, this is not the first time that had happened in the developments of the virus has been observed similar leap in virus isolated from human patients previously avian influenza in Vietnam.

3-This surge has led to the emergence of a breed of virus could cause a global epidemic so far and there is no evidence of an increased ability to move the virus among humans Therefore, the World Health Organization still considers the situation in the level of preparedness (3), which is the same the world situation since 2003.

4-Had failed to prove that the property has lost Altamiflo totally ineffective, and there are still other drugs effective against these viruses are available leap and the Ministry of Health and Population.

The Ministry of Health and Population contacts with all international organizations and bodies to modernize the global plan to combat the disease in accordance with the developments and to provide the best possible service to the citizens of Egypt.

The World Health Organization expressed admiration for transparency and cooperation of the Ministry of Health and Population in Egypt.

http://birdflu.sis.g...

Proud FAF-er.


[ Parent ]
If the public thought Tamiflu did not work -
the public would not be storming any gates to get it.

Why would WHO be less than precise about a matter so important to national and individual preparedness plans?

In the absence of information, speculation will always fill the void.

MI5 indeed. Trust must be earned before the crisis and there must always be accountability.  WHO is accountable to whom?

It would be nice if this was leadership transition blues, but what it looks like since it was announced that Chan was in charge (taken in context of the other WHO communications since that time)is message discipline.  The problem is that message discipline is a slippery slope and rarely nourishes either truth or transparency. 

 

ITW(Joel J)
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear.
- Mark Twain
 


I agree
but I also want to point out since I started the top diary, I've become less concerned about the communication issue (as the lesser of 2 evils) than about the implications of the mutation.  Hence the additional heads up for everyone.  Just FYI.  ;-)



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
Today's news that Thailand has successfully produced a
generic version doesn't make me feel any better either.  They specfically said it will help in "treatment and prevention" of AF.  The more you toss it around like candy the more likely it isn't going to help anyone.  So much time, money and effort is being directed against producing/stockpiling this stuff while so many other effective measures (public education and financial prep assitsance) need to be done.  So they are irresponsible tossing this news out without enough evidence. 

UPDATE
The WHO East Mediterranean region has a report here http://www.emro.who.... which is worth reading in full.

Important points:

  1. 35 yo female, the sister of the 26 yo male. (This person has not been laboratory confirmed but is viewed by MOHP as positive based on exposure history and clinical course.)

  2. CDC received samples on January 8, afternoon. On January 10, two of three were positive for influenza A (H5N1) in the real-time PCR typing-subtyping test. The NA and M gene sequencing of two positive isolates was conducted on January 12. The neuraminidase-inhibition assay was performed on January 16.

  3. N294S mutation has been shown to have no effect on transmission of viruses in one reverse genetics study at St. Jude. (no reference given, probably unpublished data)

  4. In vitro neuraminidase inhibition studies indicate roughly 10 fold difference in sensitivity of isolates from 26 y.o. and 16 y.o. patients when compared with a sensitive control isolate A/Egret//Egypt/06.  The latter virus was used because it has the closest NA sequence to those from humans.  Experts consider the isolates as moderately resistant to Oseltamivir.

  5. The question is as yet unanswered as to whether the mutation arose in response to treatment or the mutation existed in an animal prior to the human infections.

In summary, we don't know what the third patient had.  The change in tamiflu sensitivity at 10-fold IS actually quite moderate, as real drug resistance gives far higher numbers, as shown here with H274Y from the Vietnam case.

Notice this is in vitro sensitivity.  It doesn't mean that patients need to take 10 times the drug dose.  The clinical sensitivity has to be determined by clinical response to the drug.  In this instance, maybe the only way to find out is if there was a postmortem, to find the viral titer.  If the titer is sky high, it would point more towards resistance.  We can't be conclusive about this, as we do not have an initial viral titer for comparison.  However, if the result is a low viral titer then we can be more certain that the virus was NOT resistant to tamiflu clinically, but the patients died probably because the disease had progressed to ARDS where a reduction in virus replication can no longer reverse the process.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


Probably no postmortems
Not in Egypt, I suspect -- Islamic restrictions.  I know the 3 victims were all buried the day after they died, so I doubt there was time.

Proud FAF-er.

[ Parent ]
ok then, thanks! n/t




All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
That's a huge problem with Indo as well
I totally understand the need for cultural/religious sensitivity, but scientists could learn so much more if victims could be studied. 

[ Parent ]
the problem is made worse
by the fact that any postmortem will have to be done by western scientists, probably in NAMRU-3's facilities.  NAMRU-3 has BSL-3 facilities, while NAMRU-2 is expected to have the same in mid 07.  There is a huge perception problem.



All 'safety concerns' are hypothetical.  If not, they'd be called side effects...


[ Parent ]
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