Alternative Cooking Methods

Reflector Oven

Not to be confused with a solar oven, a reflector oven takes advantage of an existing fire without actually having to put your food in or on the fire.

The following explanation comes from http://www.usscouts....

What's a Reflector Oven?
Reflector baking is done in a reflector oven, which is a shiny aluminum "half-box" with a shelf in the middle to support the food being baked. A metal bar or legs in back of the oven supports it and keeps the shelf horizontal. A reflector oven looks something like this:

[Note from KathyinFL:  you'll need to go to the website for the drawing as I haven't learned how to drop in graphics yet.]

Dimensions vary, but a common size is 18 3/4" X 9 1/2" X 13 1/2" assembled. This oven weighs only 2 1/2 pounds. The oven is easily taken apart and folded for packing. Folded, its dimensions are 13 1/4" X 13 1/2" x 3/4".

TIP: When we first assembled our reflector oven, we noticed that the shelf simply rests on a ridge on each side of the oven. But if the oven is bumped hard enough on the side, the shelf will come off the ridges and drop down - a disaster during baking! We drilled a small hole through the shelf and ridge on each side, so we can fasten the shelf securely to the two ridges using two small nuts and bolts (and yes, we carry extra nuts and bolts on our campouts just in case). This is cheap insurance against accidentally dropping our precious homemade cake or pie into the fire!

How does a Reflector Oven Work?
There are three ways of heating food:

Conduction - heating by contact. When frying or broiling, heat goes directly from a hot frying pan or Dutch oven into the food by conduction. When boiling, heat goes directly from hot water into the food, also by conduction.

Convection - heating by hot moving air. Air expands when it is heated, causing it to move and heat food in its path. This is natural convection. Hot air can also be made to heat food by using a fan to blow the air over the food. This is forced convection. If your oven at home has a fan, it's a forced convection oven. When you bake bread in a Dutch oven, the air at the bottom of the oven is heated by conduction, causing the air to expand, rise, and displace the cooler air over it. This motion of air inside the oven bakes the bread evenly by natural convection.

Radiation - heating by radiant energy. A fire gives off radiant energy, which travels in all directions around the fire. The hotter the fire, the more radiant energy it gives off. Because of this, a hot fire can heat food even without conduction or convection.

The simplest example of heating by radiation is the sun's heating of the earth's surface. Radiant energy from the sun passes through space in all directions. Some of this energy is absorbed by the earth's surface, creating our climate and weather. Radiation is also how your microwave oven works. A device inside your oven gives off microwave radiant energy and directs it at the food. The radiant energy is not absorbed much by the air inside your oven, but it is absorbed by the food. It is this absorbed energy that cooks the food. I'm sure you noticed that the air inside your microwave is cool, even though your food is hot. The microwave cooks by radiation, not convection, so the air inside your oven is not heated.

A reflector oven heats food by capturing radiant energy from the campfire and directing it on the food. The food to be baked is placed on the shelf of the oven. When radiant energy from the fire strikes the shiny, sloped top or bottom of the oven, the energy is reflected toward the shelf, where the food absorbs it and starts to bake.

The amount of energy captured by the oven depends a lot on the temperature of the fire, and on the oven's distance from the fire. If the temperature of the fire is doubled, the amount of energy captured by the oven with increase by a factor of sixteen! So you will want a good, hot fire with lots of flames. Also, if the distance between the fire and the oven is cut in half, the amount of energy captured by the oven will increase by a factor of four. So you can adjust the temperature of your oven by changing its distance from the fire.

Tips on Using a Reflector Oven
A reflector oven needs a source of high, steady heat. We've found that the best kind of campfire for reflector baking is a large box- or log cabin-style fire, such as might be built for a ceremonial campfire. Ideally, the fire should produce steady flames that extend higher than the oven. Not as effective is a teepee fire, particularly if it's somewhat windy and the flames tend to flicker or move about.

Be sure to have lots of dry wood on hand, as you will need to keep those steady flames going for the entire time your are baking.

You will need to be VERY careful when you position the oven. You will have to work near the fire, as the oven should be placed about a foot or so from the edge of the fire. This is not the place to fool around! It seems close, but we have found that the baking time increases a lot if the oven is much further away than 1½ feet. Many pictures in camping books show a reflector oven at some distance from the campfire. This is done so you can get a good view of the oven, but do not rely on these pictures when actually placing your oven in the field.

On the other hand, be sure not to place your oven so close to the fire that flames pass under and lick the bottom of the oven shelf. If they do, you will wind up frying food that should be baked, and you will have disappointing results.

Before putting food on the shelf of your oven, be sure the oven is secure and the shelf is level. You do not want your food to slide down the shelf, nor do you want liquids such as cake batter to be distributed unevenly in the pan.

We started out using an oven thermometer, and trying to keep an eye on the oven temperature as we baked. We have given this up, because we found it hard to keep the oven temperature steady in the 300-400 degree range called for in most recipes. Our oven almost invariably winds up too hot; perhaps this is merely a matter of poor control on our part. So we bake by visual inspection; when the knife blade inserted into the food comes out clean, it's done. Also, we rotate the food when it looks as though the side of the food nearer the campfire is getting a little overdone.

A SAFETY TIP: because you are cooking with radiant energy, the oven will always be much hotter than the air around it. The oven gets VERY hot. You must use oven mitts when handling the hot oven or the pans you put in it. Treat the oven with the same respect you treat the oven in your kitchen back home!

Recipes - YUM!
Here are some of our favorite foods to bake in a reflector oven:

Berry Pie

2 cups flour
1 teaspoon salt
2/3 cup plus 2 tablespoons shortening
5 tablespoons water
5-6 cups berries
4 tablespoons flour
1 cup brown sugar
½ teaspoon salt
2 tablespoons butter

Measure 2 cups flour and 1 teaspoon salt into bowl. Cut in shortening thoroughly. Sprinkle in water, 1 tablespoon at a time, mixing until all the flour is moistened and dough almost cleans side fo bowl. Gather dough into ball, divide in half. Shape into flattened round on flour-covered wax paper. Flour and place wax paper on top. Roll dough 2 inches larger than inverted pie pan. Ease dough into pan and peel off wax paper. Roll dough for top crust. Stir together 4 tablespoons flour, brown sugar, and ½ teaspoon salt for filling. Pour over berries and toss gently to mix. Pile mixture into pie pan and dot with butter. Carefully cover with dough for top crust. Pinch edges and cut slits for steam. Bake until crust is browned and filling is bubbling hot. Turn pie in oven as needed for even baking. Cool before serving.

Bannock Bread

1 cup flour
1 teaspoon baking powder
¼ teaspoon salt
1 tablespoon sugar
1 egg

Mix ingredients with a few tablespoons water. Bake until bread rises, is browned, crust is stiff when tapped, and knife blade inserted into bread comes out clean.

Biscuits

3 cups flour
6 tablespoons baking powder
½ teaspoon salt
6 tablespoons oil
1 cup milk

Mix ingredients. Roll on a flat, flour-covered surface. Cut out biscuits and place in baking pan. Bake until browned and stiff, and knife blade inserted into biscuits comes out clean.

Chocolate Chocolate Chip Cookies

2½ cups flour
½ teaspoon baking soda
¼ teaspoon salt
½ cup unsweetened cocoa powder
1 cup dark brown sugar, packed
¾ cup white sugar
1 cup butter, softened
3 eggs
2 teaspoons vanilla
2 cups (12 ounces) semisweet chocolate chips

In a bowl, combine flour, baking soda, salt, cocoa powder. Mix well, set aside. In separate bowl, blend sugars well. Add butter, beat to form grainy paste. Add eggs, vanilla. Beat until light and fluffy. Add flour mixture, chocolate chips. Blend until just combined. Drop by spoonfuls onto ungreased cookie sheet. Bake until knife blade inserted into cookie comes out clean.

Brownies

1 cup sugar
½ cup shortening
2 eggs
½ cup flour
2 squares melted baking chocolate
½ teaspoon vanilla
pinch salt

Mix ingredients well. Pour into greased 8-inch square pan. Bake until knife inserted into brownies comes out clean.

Apple Pie
2 cups flour
1 teaspoon salt
2/3 cup and 2 tablespoons shortening
5 tablespoons water
2¼ pounds apples
2 tablespoons lemon juice
2/3 cup brown sugar, packed
1/3 cup white sugar
1 teaspoon cinnamon
1/8 teaspoon cloves
1/8 teaspoon nutmeg
grated orange peel
grated lemon peel
2 tablespoons orange juice
2 tablespoons butter

Mix salt and flour. Cut in shortening. Sprinkle in water, 1 tablespoon at a time, until all flour is moistened and sides of bowl are clean. Split dough in half. Roll out crusts to 2 inches larger than pie pan. Peel, core, slice apples. Sprinkle with lemon juice. Combine sugars, spices, and peels. Lay out lower crust in pie pan. Top with layer of apples. Sprinkle sugar mixture over apples. Repeat, layering apples and sugar mixture to fill pan. Dot with orange juice and butter. Cover with top crust, pinching crust all the way around to seal. Cut slits in top. Bake until crust is browned and filling is bubbly. Cool before serving.

Muffins
Store-bought muffins bake fine in lined muffin tins in a reflector oven. Our favorite is chocolate chip!

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Sat Feb 03, 2007 at 11:21:29 AM CST

Directions for reflector ovens

Below are several links for making your own reflector oven.  They are fairly simple in design and have been used in centuries past as a common kitchen applicance.

http://campingandtra...

http://www.kayak2go....

http://www.wcha.org/... (.pdf file)

http://www.angelfire... (discusses many different outdoor cooking methods)

http://www.jennysmit...

http://www.cherith.c... (outdoor cooking lesson plan in .doc format)


Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Sat Feb 03, 2007 at 11:33:53 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Outdoor Campus, South Dakota

The Outdoor Campus in South Dakota (USA) has some good directions for various outdoor cooking methods and recipes.  I eventually want to start a diary for wild food and recipes on how to use them ... but that's for another day.  Until then, check out http://www.sdgfp.inf... for ideas on alternative and/or outdoor cooking methods and the recipes to go with them.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Sat Feb 03, 2007 at 11:35:32 AM CST

Haybox Cooking

We've got a couple of people here on Fluwiki that are really experienced with this method of cooking.  Perhaps they'll post their experiences here.

Either way, below are some links with how-to's and directions for making and using your own haybox oven.

http://www.lostvalle... (has some hand drawn graphics explaining each step)

http://www.facilitie... (.pdf file from Ohio State)

http://www.solarcook... (.pdf file from Sustainable Living Center)

http://www.talkingle... (article on why every house needs a haybox)

http://takingplace.o... (not just for hippies anymore according to this article)

http://www.thermalco...

http://www.repp.org/... (great pictures of the haybox being used in the field0

http://www.efn.org/~... (article on using a volcano stove and haybox together for the highest fuel efficiency)

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Sat Feb 03, 2007 at 12:07:43 PM CST

Cooking With Clay Pots

A synopsis from various websites on this technique

HOW IT WORKS:  Clay is a porous material.  When the pot is saturated with water and put into the oven, there is a slow evaporation of steam from within the pores of the clay itself.  During the cooking process, the food forms its own juices.  These juices cannot escape until the pot is completely dry. Fortunately, when the pot becomes dry, the food is cooked! Because wet clay does not become as hot as metal, it is necessary to cook at a higher temperature than is usual, (450F rather than the customary 350F).  However, in spite of this high temperature, the danger of burning is minimal and can only take place
if the food is cooked for too long a period of time.  As a general rule, if you add 100 degrees F. and 30 minutes to the cooking time of any recipe, it can be adapted for use in a clay pot. For instance, if you normally cook a 3
pound chicken at 350F for 1 hour, you will need to cook it in a clay pot at 450F for 1 1/2 hours.

The manufacturers of clay pots recommend that they always be placed in a cold oven. However, in an emergency, I have occasionally put the pot into a pre-heated 350F oven
and it did not crack nor did the food come to any harm. It is also possible to reheat food in a clay pot. Soak the lid in cold water for 10 minutes, cover the pot and pop it back into a 350F oven for 30 minutes.

CLEANING THE POT:  As you discover the almost miraculous results of cooking in clay, you will be using your pot with greater and greater frequency and it will quickly lose its brand new appearance. Though the pot goes through a short period of adolescence when it looks slightly mottled, it eventually acquires a character of its own and you begin to find yourself less concerned about the odd blemishes which refuse to budge in spite of the most desperate scrubbing. The pot is, in fact, very easy to clean because food will not stick to the surface (unless, of course, you burn it on).  Simply let the pot cool after it has been taken from the oven and soak it in warm water for a few minutes. Sprinkle the pot with salt and scour it with a stiff brush. Rinse the pot and let it drain until it is dry. (As clay is porous, it is not wise to clean it with detergents or scouring powder.) I have heard it said that you need a separate clay pot for cooking fish, but I have not found this to be so, in fact I have been unable to detect any lingering flavors or odors even after it has
been used for the spiciest of recipes.  However if you do feel any concern over the matter, you can soak the pot in hot water adding three tablespoons of baking soda to
each quart of water.  This will clean it very thoroughly and even small black scorch dots can be coaxed from the clay with the minimum of effort. Store the pot as you would any other utensil.  It is considerably less fragile than it appears, and unless you drop it on the floor, it will survive many accidental knocks and bumps without complaint. Do take the precaution of storing the lid alongside, rather than on top of the pot. This eliminates the risk of the development of mold inside the pot in case it was not completely dry. From "Cooking in Clay" by Irena Chalmers, Potpourri Press, Greensboro N.C., 1974.

Some interesting directions for using terracotta pots as a cooking vessel:

http://guidezone.e-g... (talking about terracotta planting pots)

http://www.cookingwi... (talking primarily about earthenware pots)

http://www.thegreeng... (has some recipes at the end of the article)

http://www.romertopf... (Romertopf Clay Pot Manufacture's home page)

http://www.claybaker... (Website dedicated to clay pot cooking, directing to the recipe index page)

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Sat Feb 03, 2007 at 17:45:01 PM CST

important note

Make sure that the clay pots you plan to use are lead free.

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by: Irene @ Sun Feb 04, 2007 at 01:10:02 AM CST

[ Parent ]

some people got Romertopfs or similar as gifts

and they end up unused and found at tag sales or in consignment shops.

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by: crfullmoon @ Sun Feb 04, 2007 at 08:32:14 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Cooking in a Wheelbarrow

Basic directions:  Line a wheelbarrow with heavy foil and dump in the charcoal. It might take up a lot of space to get there, but it works once it's there and it won't scorch the ground. You can throw in some one inch rocks to help air circulate under the starter coals. You can either stick-cook, set dutch ovens on top of coal or bring along the grill off another barbecue to do foil packs. Wrap the ashes in the foil to dispose and your done.

Caveat:  Do not use plastic or fiberglass wheelbarrows for this activity.  Be careful of the heat generated, which can be quite a bit.  Wooden handles can also be a problem.  Make sure that wheelbarrow in on a cleared area and nothing is touching the bottom or sides as the heat could cause ignition.

Solar Cooking in a Wheelbarrow: 
Re: Solar Cooking in a Wheelbarrow Prepare dinner at breakfast time when the day is over 23 degrees Celsius.

1. Wash out the wheelbarrow, then line with aluminum foil.

2. Select a sheet of glass to cover the top of the barrow.

3. Position in a sunny spot.

4. Place potatoes and veggies into a Dutch oven with lid and put them in the wheelbarrow on a couple of bricks, replace the glass. The article I read concerning this states the creative chef has also cooked baked custard in a stainless steel bowl, fried egg in a small pie dish (took about 20 minutes), a chocolate cake, shortbread. Her Christmas Cake took 2 days as it wasn't that hot, but was still tasty. When setting it up wear sunglasses as light reflects off the foil, wear oven mittens as it gets very hot. She also recommends an oven thermometer so you can gauge the temperature correctly.


Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Sat Feb 03, 2007 at 18:02:05 PM CST

solar oven wheelbarrow!

23C = 73.4F hm, ok.

(Still think I could rig something up inside my car... wonder how "warm" it gets in the winter Sun up here, with a collecter on the back ledge, or, dashboard...)

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by: crfullmoon @ Sun Feb 04, 2007 at 08:37:20 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Making Your Own Charcoal

To make your own charcoal, select twigs, limbs, and branches of fruit, nut and other hardwood trees; black walnuts and peach or apricot pits may also be used. Cut wood into desired size, place in a large can which has a few holes punched in it, put a lid on the can and place the can in a hot fire. When the flames from the holes in the can turn yellow-red, remove the can from the fire and allow it to cool. Store the briquettes in a moisture-proof container. Burn charcoal only in a well-ventilated area.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Sat Feb 03, 2007 at 18:02:24 PM CST

Alternative cooking

I was gonna start this topic today after a failed attempt Friday night. 

I have a smaller woodstove on the main floor of our house, its really just a metal box, but that and a fan is enough to knock the chill off in the morning before the big monster in the basement gets hot. 

Well this little one, since its not double walled, gets REALLY hot on top.  I keep a tea kettle of water on it and it whistles fairly regularly.  I thought this would be a GREAT place to put my neat-o coleman oven and bake some pizza.  Put that baby on top, opened the stove up and let'er run wide open.  D#mn oven never got more than 120 degrees. 

Now, it could be the wood we are burning, it's still a bit green, so I suppose I could get a hotter fire out of good dry wood, but in a pandemic we might not be assured of good dry wood.

So just another example of try out your preps before you NEED them.  Things might not go as planned.

Our children change our lives, whether they live or not.
www.misschildren.org

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by: Carrey in VA @ Mon Feb 05, 2007 at 06:24:47 AM CST

Solar Cooking

There are several commerical versions of a solar cooker available.  I'll be looking for recipes that have been specifically designed for solar cookers over the next couple of days.

However, there are also some inexpensive solar ovens out there than can be made with recycled materials or with building materials that are easily obtained from the local hardware store.  I'll be posting those as well.

Anyone with experience using a solar oven(s), please feel free to share.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Mon Feb 05, 2007 at 10:13:11 AM CST

Pringle Can Solar Cooker

I've done this and it actually works.  Would be great for small amounts of food that you could cook "kabob style."  In addition to the hot dogs and sausages that have been described in the links below, I've also done root vegetables, fruits, and small pieces of bread.

http://www.geocities...

http://www.energywhi...

http://dragon.sleepd...

http://www.gmlsrc.or...


Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Mon Feb 05, 2007 at 10:17:58 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Pizza Box Solar Oven

I've given this one a try as well.  More versatile than the Pringle Can oven.  Some folks make them bigger, some folks smaller.  Its depends on the size of the box you start with.

http://www.solarnow....

http://www.reachoutm...

http://www.nasa.gov/... (this one in particular has some good pics to go with the directions)

http://solarcooking.... (.pdf file with pics)


Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Mon Feb 05, 2007 at 10:23:43 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Other homemade solar ovens

Below are solar ovens that are little more "oven-y" in design.  They hold full sized roasting pans for the most part from what I can tell as well as common supplies.

http://www.pathtofre...

http://www.backwoods...

http://www.plymouths... (this is a webquest designed for students, but actually gives some good tips for everyone when building and testing a solar cooker)

http://www.endtimesr...

http://www.angelfire... (scroll down the page and there are directions for making a solar cooker from a windshield shade)

http://www.alternati... (satellite dish cooker)

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Mon Feb 05, 2007 at 10:36:06 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Solar Oven Recipes

Kathy, I have a solar oven recipe booklet that I put together last winter. I've been meaning to post the recipes forever and keep sidetracking myself. I am starting a diary now and will post a link to it once I have it done.

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by: Edna Mode @ Mon Feb 05, 2007 at 15:54:56 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Solar oven cooking

Hi, I recently purchased a solar oven (Sun Oven).  Although I have recipes (almost any recipe you could use for a crockpot can be used), I am concerned about the condensation.  I'm hoping someone can give me an idea of how to eliminate this condensation.  It makes all the food soggy which is okay if you're cooking chili but not if you're trying to roast a chicken.

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by: pegster @ Mon May 14, 2007 at 07:57:39 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

more plans for solar ovens

http://solarcooking....

Check out the above website for all types of solar ovens that you can make.

http://www.efn.org/~... "Rocket Stove"

http://solarcooking.... "Soda Bottle Pastuerizer"

http://solarcooking.... "The Tire Cooker" -- yep, solar cooker made out of a tire

Lots of others and they are also available in other languages (besides English)

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 08:27:09 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Sterno Shelf-Life

Someone posted the other day (on another thread I believe) that Sterno has a shelf-life of one year.

I was just on the Sterno site for another purpose, and I checked on shelf-life on the company FAQ.

How long can I keep Sterno on my shelf?
It is recommended replacing Sterno cooking fuel 2 years after purchase. Always replace cover when not in use. Sterno is made partly of denatured alcohol which evaporates from prolonged exposure to air.

So, while it "is recommended" to replace every two years, that isn't the same as saying it won't work after two years. I have an old case of Sterno that I'm going to have DH dig out so I can test a can. I'll let you know how it goes.

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by: Edna Mode @ Mon Feb 05, 2007 at 15:40:48 PM CST

I was making a guess about the shelf life.

I have had some for a year now, I guess I could open one of those cans and check it out.  I know once it is opened, it goes downhill quickly, even if you are careful to reseal the lid.

If I had done this on my own, I would have done most of it incorrectly.

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by: Hillbilly Bill @ Mon Feb 05, 2007 at 15:43:42 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yup. They say that on their FAQ, too. n/t

Don't waste a can, HBB. I'll do the honors. If my 5+ year old can works, then you'll know for sure your 1 y.o. can is fine, too.

DH is running an errand. I'll see if I can get him to dig out the case from our crawl space when he gets home. He's been mopping up after our norovirus-spewing (no kidding) 8 y.o. all day while I work.

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by: Edna Mode @ Mon Feb 05, 2007 at 15:53:40 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Thanks E.M....n/t

If I had done this on my own, I would have done most of it incorrectly.

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by: Hillbilly Bill @ Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 05:01:13 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Haven't forgotten

HBB, Haven't forgotten about this. We've all been dropping like dominos with this stomach bug. Everyone is home sick today. Hopefully this weekend we'll pull out the Sterno.

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by: Edna Mode @ Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 07:46:08 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Not a problem, hope you are all better soon. n/t

If I had done this on my own, I would have done most of it incorrectly.

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by: Hillbilly Bill @ Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 08:01:11 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I picked up a little sterno

so that if nothing else I could heat water.  That's probably about all that I'll be able to use it for ... or maybe melting Crisco, butter, cheese, etc.  I don't even know if it gets not enough to make hobo popcorn with.  I've been meaning to try.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Mon Feb 05, 2007 at 16:03:01 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I tried popcorn

and it didn't work very well.  Sterno is pretty much limited to warming up food.


If I had done this on my own, I would have done most of it incorrectly.

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by: Hillbilly Bill @ Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 05:04:00 AM CST

[ Parent ]

KathyinFL

You may want to get one of these,

http://www.northernt...

now that you have small propane cylinders and some 20lb tanks.  It will pay for itself fairly quickly.  Also, you might want to get hubby to make a rack or holder for a 20lb tank.  It needs to be upside down when you do a refill.

If I had done this on my own, I would have done most of it incorrectly.

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by: Hillbilly Bill @ Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 05:10:26 AM CST

I like, I realy really like [grin]

Thanks HB.  I've been considering one of those buddy thingies ... it just doesn't get as cold here in west central FL as it does at our north FL property.  Can be as much as 30 degrees difference at night during certain parts of the year.

But what I did see that I really liked was a single burner, cast iron cook up for the propane tanks.  Sort of like a hot plate for your propane tanks.  [grin]  We just ... for the first time ever ... bought a gas grill.  Its beautiful but it is so big.  Its one of those big Brinkman things at 60,000 BTUs if I had the sucker all cranked up and has a 12,000 BTU side burner.  But there is no way I'm going to be moving that monster around any more than necessary.  The little portable burner would mean that I could even cook on gas if we had to bug out.

I have one of those single burners that you can hook up to the one pound propane cylinders.  We've used it hiking.  But they can be precarious without a good base.  The cast iron burner looks really heavy duty and will hook up to a 20 pound tank and it is free standing.

http://www.northernt...


Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 14:09:36 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Looks really familiar.

That looks like the single-burner version of the cookstove I bought.

http://www.sportsman...

It is quite sturdy and definitely puts out the heat.  However I have found the gas supply controls to be rudimentary and not easily adjustable.  Depending on what you are cooking, that may be, or may not be a problem.

The overall fit and finish is rough as this item is Made in That Large Far Eastern Country That Shall Not Be Critcized.

If I had done this on my own, I would have done most of it incorrectly.

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by: Hillbilly Bill @ Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 08:12:59 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I just got me a nice new shiny butane stove!

It's small but it will hold a large pot, and it sits in a nice little black case and looks relatively easy to use.  The great thing about butane, IMHO, is that the canisters will last for about 3 hours of cooking time.  If I stretch it, one can could last me about a week, and I can stretch it by using sterno to reheat foods that I've cooked.

I also have propane and a camping propane stove, but it doesn't hurt to have an alternative method of cooking, just in case the propane stove becomes problematic. 

Has anyone had experiences using butane for cooking foods?  The only place I have ever seen it used is in the Chinese restaurants, so I got the idea to get it at the Chinese grocery store.  Stove is $15 and butane cans are $1 each.

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by: Kelly Phan @ Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 11:06:52 AM CST

Kelly, good choice on the butane stove

This was one of the first things I picked up when I started prepping, cheap, light, clean burning.  Have not really tried it out on any serious cooking, but it boils water very quickly, the canisters as you say are light and long lasting.  With the usual caveats about open flames, ventilation, seems to be an excellent option.  This is one of the cheapest ways to go also.  Read somewhere that butane burns very cleanly with little carbon monoxide, but would do further research on that claim.  Again, they use them in many restaurants at tableside.

Have my woodstove also to cook on, but do not think I would want to fire that up in the Summer!

Experience has taught me that there are few conspiracies, but much incompetence

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by: NauticalMan @ Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 11:46:27 AM CST

Thank you, NauticalMan. I will play with it this weekend

since I'm taking the next week off for vacation.  I'll take my new butane stove to Yosemite & try it out there so I get the hang of using it before it becomes a necessity to do so. 

Can't wait to go to Yosemite!  It's beautiful there, whatever time of year I go. 

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by: Kelly Phan @ Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 11:55:59 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Bacon and Eggs in a Bag

This assumes, of course, that you still have bacon and eggs but it is interesting.

Bacon and Eggs in a Paper Bag (Serves 16)

1 lb. bacon
16 lunch size paper bags
32 large whole eggs
16 long handled cooking forks

Cut each slice of bacon in half. Open lunch bag and line bottom with 2 half-slices of bacon. Wash hands after handling raw bacon. Close the bag by folding the top down 1 1/2 inches. Make a second fold about the same size. Pierce the bag (through the fold) in the center with the cooking fork or a stick. Hold the bag (by the cooking fork or stick) over a bed of hot coals. The bag should be about 1 inch above the coals. Cook for 3-5 minutes until bag starts to get soaked with bacon grease. Remove bag from heat, let cool for 1 minute. Break open 2 eggs and drop them into the bag on top of the bacon. Stir eggs, refold bag and pierce in center with cooking fork. Hold the bag about 1 inch above coals for about 15 minutes or until eggs are firm and bacon is cooked. Eat bacon and eggs right from the bag.


Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 17:30:16 PM CST

Outdoor Stoves

https://people.creig...

TRENCH STOVE
On dirt, use bricks, logs, tiles or stones to form a trench. If "no trace" method is desired, place the trench walls on a sheet of tin. Fill trench with charcoal. Keep it small. This type of stove is good for boiling, frying, broiling, toasting, etc.

CHARCOAL STOVE
Use a #10 (or larger) can. Using a (triangular) punch-type opener, make holes all around the bottom of the can and make fewer holes around the top edge of the can. Make a grate out of wire to be placed inside the can about 1" below the can's handle. Make the grate easily removable by using wires to hang the grate over the top edge of the can. Burn charcoal inside the can and add the grate when the fire is ready. This stove is good for toasting, broiling, frying, etc.

SANDFRAME STOVE
Place a sheet of tin on the ground. Build a square frame using 2x4s. Place this on the tin. (A wheelbarrow can be substituted and no board frame is required.) Fill the frame with sand. Build any kind of fire on the sand. Use bricks, logs, or stones. This stove can be used to broil, toast, fry, boil, etc., but is best used for a small group (6 or fewer).

BUDDY BURNER STOVE
This stove should be made before the campout. Fill a tin can (i.e. tuna fish can) 4/5 full of melted wax. Cut a strip of cardboard whose width is higher than the expected level of the wax - roll this into a loose spiral. Or cut individual strips of cardboard that are taller than the expected level of wax. Let the wax harden a little; then insert the coiled carboard or the strips of cardboard in a spiral formation. The cardboard strips must extend above the level of the wax. This stove is good for frying or boiling, but not for toasting as it emits black soot.

VAGABOND STOVE
Use a #10 (or larger) can. The open end will be the bottom of the stove. First cut an opening at the bottom that is about half the height of the can. Then make an opening for the chimney at the top (opposite side) of the can. Clear off the top and use this as a frying surface. Build a small fire and once it's going steadily, place the can over the fire. This stove requires one person to keep the fire burning steadily (but small), and another person to fry the food.

CARDBOARD OVEN
You will need the following to build your oven:

1 box with lid (like a computer paper box)
LOTS of (heavy duty) aluminum foil
Wire clothes hangers
Some duct tape
An aluminum pie tin
Encase both box and lid inside and out with tin foil. This reflects the heat in and keeps air away from combustible cardboard. With the box on it's long side (opening towards you) poke holes in either end to accomodate the wire clothes hangers. This should be about half way up and you can run either two or three. This makes your shelf for the food. You may leave these completely open, or wrap foil around them as well. Start your charcoal in the usual way and use the pie tin to put it into the oven. 6-10 briquets do a very nice job of baking; add a few more if you like things black and crunchy. We poked small holes in the top and bottom for ventilation for the coals, and leaned the box lid so that there was some space at the bottom.


Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 17:41:29 PM CST

Stealthy Cooking

Folks, be careful not to lose sight of the unsettled social conditions that may prevail during a pandemic.  You do not want to inadvertently send up "smoke signals" that will alert deperate, unprepared people to the fact that you still have provisions.

You are running out of time.


http://tinyurl.com/37bl45

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by: Dr Dave @ Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 18:30:09 PM CST

Nothing is stealthy in a subdivision or apartment complex ...

not even extramarital affairs.  Someone always finds out ... then blabs to everyone else.

My goal is to be able to feed my family.  I have built in as many redundancies as is feasible for our situation.

If the social unrest is about food at all, people will notice any odors of cooking, even over the smell of garbage. 

A good fire will be practically smokeless.  You cook over coals, not really over open flames.  Use dry wood when possible, use charcoal as a first or last resort ... first while everyone else still has something, last if you are avoiding being noticed.  Cook food in a covered container and avoid letting the odor out by lifting the lid any more than necessary ... but even then it will probably travel.

We can only do as much as we can do.  People who live in close quarters will probably have several significant concerns that they will be trying to address ... water and sanitation is probably the primary one with food coming a close second.  Health and safety follow so closely that it makes no difference.


Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 20:27:06 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Smoke

Kathy,

Sorry to sound negative, but I would not recommend cooking over wood or charcoal during a pandemic.  Apart from the unavoidable smoke, you will be outside far longer than is really necessary to cook a meal.

You are running out of time.


http://tinyurl.com/37bl45

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by: Dr Dave @ Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 20:40:04 PM CST

Negative I can handle (grin)

No problem, everyone will have their own situation.  Despite us having neighbors, none of them are directly adjacent to us.  I have an orange grove on one side, no one directly in front or behind and the other two neighbors are situated diagonal from us.  Only the rear neighbor can see over our fence and she is elderly and unlikely to be a threat.  Her only daughter lives across the street from us ... and they will have their hands full with their own problems.

Other neighbors further afield are a bit of concern but the charcoal and wood cooking are going to be "last resort" for us simply because its not something I want the kids to have to do.  I plan on building a pit fire if need be ... you dig a deepish hole, put charcoals in the bottom and burn them down to coals.  Some palm fronds over the hole should help disperse any smoke, but we won't need many brickets anyway.  Then you put your dutch oven down in the hole with your food inside.  Make sure the lide is on securely.  Then back fill the hole.  I've cooked beans this way several times ... sort of like slow cooking.  Some locals cook pork like this as well.

Even solar cooking produces food odor however.  Food odor will be more of a problem than smoke in my opinion if things get that desparate.  And even cooking inside could have food odor drifting outside by various ventilation.  The range hood may vent into your attic or into a pipe that vents out your roof line.  Due to the heat, you may be forced to have your windows open whether you want to or not.  Could be any number of things.  I've got a stock of the heavy duty odor reducers and a large supply of baking soda to try and mitigate odors as much as possible.  Even if humans aren't a problem we have a lot of opportunistic animals in this area ... opposum, raccoon, stray dogs and cats, etc.  Last thing I want to do is deal with the humans only be to overrun by the varmints.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 21:02:36 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Fuel of Last Resort

Kathy,

I will admit that I have stocked a good bit of seasoned red oak, but I truly regard this as my fuel of last resort.  Here is why:

With my Coleman propane stoves, I can cook for 1 hour per day for over 1 year.  With my Coleman liquid fuel stoves I can cook for 1 hour per day for at least 2 years.  So, if I ever have to resort to wood for my cooking fuel, that means we will have emerged from the next pandemic somewhere in the 19th century.  (Yikes!)

If you are really intent upon cooking with wood during a pandemic, I strongly recommend that you prepare your cooking fuel now, while conditions are still normal.  Saw your wood into 5-10 inch lengths and then split these lengths down to the diameters you intend to use.  For cooking with a single kettle or pan, I prefer sections that are about 7 inches long and about an inch thick.  There are three reasons to do this before the pandemic: 1) You can conserve your fuel and reduce the smoke by using very small pieces of wood; 2) The sound of wood chopping activities might attract unwanted attention; and 3) You, personally, might not be around to do this chore for the surviving members of your family.

You are running out of time.


http://tinyurl.com/37bl45

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by: Dr Dave @ Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 08:23:32 AM CST

Wood is seasoning as we speak

I'm all in the game with what I need to do for prepping for outdoor cookery.  I'm fairly experienced at it in that that has been the main outlet for our family vacations for 20 years now plus that is what I did as a kid and in years of scouting. 

There are great benefits and problems associated with any cooking method.  Because of this I have chosen to developed as many different options as possible ... like my cooking in a hole.  LOL!

Seriously though, I think by the time we get around to having to cook out of doors, most everyone else will be at that point as well.  It won't be such an unusual event.  Luckily I'll even be able to cook on our screened lanai as it gives me a breezeway that would keep any fumes out of the house ... my kitchen has no windows, only a very large, very not openable [grin] skylight.  That is assuming of course, a worst case scenario.

Just as an aside:  Additionally you might want to get a couple of cases of "fat wood" stored.  I don't like to use fire starters unless I have to and prefer starting very small fires and gradually getting it built just the way I want it.  I've found there is much less smoke created by building a slow fire and the coals are better as well.  Takes longer perhaps, but the results are better and more long lived in my experience.  I can start bonfires with lint and slow building technique, and do it all the time at our rural property.  Matter of fact, I save most of my dryer lint for this very purpose.

You can use moss, but it creates A LOT of smoke and can stink.  Nothing better than a relatively smokeless and sweet smelling fire. 

And for those of you reading this that have questions, I would ask your local extension or forestry units which woods in your area that SHOULDN'T be burnt.  Sumac and Oleander are two of the potential killers around my area.  There stuff like that all over and you should be very familiar with what is and what is not good burning material in your area.


Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:41:17 AM CST

[ Parent ]

dryer lint fire starters, you got

me there. Never thought about that. From now on, I'm saving my lint. I had planned on trying moth balls as a fire starter, as I've heard you could, but who can stand the smell? 

United we stand: Divided we fall

http://cottontopssandbox.wordp...

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by: cottontop @ Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:50:57 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Dryer lint fire starters are cool

Dryer lint is very versatile:

  - You can "thread" it and use it with a flint and strike.
  - You can use it to stuff a buddy burner type thing with and pour paraffin over it
  - You can dampen it down and then compact it into "sticks" or "logs" or flat pieces of "paper" so that when it dries it is similar to paper mache
  - You can stuff it in cardboard egg cartons and pour paraffin over it.  After the paraffin hardens you can cut the individual "eggs" apart and you have homemade, solid firestarters
  - and since lint is primarily made up of cotton fibers, it will absorb kerosene or other fuels very easily if you wanted to make "solid" fuel firestarters which you might need if the wood you are trying to light is very damp ... but be prepared for smoke and it isn't the safest technique in the world for sure.

Dryer line is also a good amendment to soil that needs more "body" or aeration.  And, it makes a good mulch for running down garden rows.  Once the lint gets thick enough, its almost like walking on towels ... OK, dirty towels, but it is still different.  LOL!  You can add it to your compost pile.  You can also use it for wadding and stuffing, though it gives off a lot of "dust." 


Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:09:07 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Alot of great ideas for lint

Who knew dryer lint, that stuff you toss in the trash, could be so versitile? I want to try the "egg" fire starters. Do you use just regular paraffin wax from the grocery store?

Love all the ideas to experiment with.

United we stand: Divided we fall

http://cottontopssandbox.wordp...

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by: cottontop @ Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:15:27 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Yep, plain ol' paraffin

I think it is called "Gulf Wax" or something like that ... I kind of stopped paying attention to the name, its just always been the same stuff.  LOL!

Melt it in a double boiler to prevent flash point.  I'm sure you know that whole routine.  [grin]

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:18:20 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Gulf wax, that's it

and the best part of this is that Daughter and I can do this together. I'm always looking for craft projects for us to do outside during the spring and summer. We love to make our own soap outside near the camp area. Makes us feel "homesteady", however fleeting the feeling is.

United we stand: Divided we fall

http://cottontopssandbox.wordp...

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by: cottontop @ Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:33:39 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Outside cooking

While I have made many preparations to be able to cook and heat food indoors, my last resort will be cooking over a wood fire.  I understand that the fire itself, and the odor of cooking food could possibly bring unwanted attention, but by the time I get down to cooking over an open wood fire I expect to have the neighbors that I trust right there with me to guard the meal.

If I had done this on my own, I would have done most of it incorrectly.

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by: Hillbilly Bill @ Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 08:31:34 AM CST

While I agree with the good Doctor, and HB

that outdoor cooking should be a last resort, I'm glad Kathy has taken the time to start this thread. Outdoor cooking need to be apart of our planning. There will most certainly be a point to where cooking indoors won't be possible any longer and we will have to look outdoors to cook our food. I agree that we must use caution in not drawing attention to ourselves, and while that may be a difficult thing to achieve, we will have to be aware of it.
Thanks Kathy for your efforts, and keep up the good work. I enjoy your diaries, and find them very useful.

United we stand: Divided we fall

http://cottontopssandbox.wordp...

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by: cottontop @ Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:25:24 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Remember that kitches were once separate buildings

from the rest of the household or the cooking was mostly done in the hearth area.  This was primarily due to the risk of fire but by having a separate building as a kitchen it would keep the main house cooler during those parts of the year when it was already almost too hot.

Even into the 19th and early 20th centuries, during the summer many women chose to have a cookstand outside rather than heat the inside of the house up.  There were also "Summer kitchens" and "winter kitchens."

My grandmother had her regular kitchen and then the canning kitchen.  The canning kitchen was set up so that heat didn't escape into the main part of the house during those months on the farm when she was putting up the various harvested items ... and that was just back in the 70's and 80's.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 08:40:52 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Good outdoor cooking training booklet

http://www.scoutbase...

The booklet (in .pdf format) is used by BSUSA to train people in outdoor cookery.

I especially like the directions for making an outdoor oven out of a metal drum.  Again, I know that cooking out of doors will probably be most folks choice of last resort but having the redundancy available may also give a sense of long term security.  Its certainly a worthy skill to acquire regardless of pandemic worst case or not.


Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 15:25:39 PM CST

DishIt Outdoor Cookbook

http://www.epilogsys...

This is a 201 page .pdf document that has a ton of information in it.  There are line drawings and directions for several different kind of ovens and cookers as well as safety precautions and how to make things easier on yourself.

And of course, there are recipes as well.  [grin]

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 15:29:35 PM CST

fireplace scones

Life is not so short but that there is always time enough for courtesy. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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by: mojo @ Mon Feb 12, 2007 at 15:11:51 PM CST

These were easy to do which surprised me

Took about twenty minutes total.

Life is not so short but that there is always time enough for courtesy. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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by: mojo @ Mon Feb 12, 2007 at 15:12:43 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I've made these in camp, but never in a fireplace, great pic

Thanks Mojo!  I love the pic ... I've made these on a campfire before.  Scones are some of the easiest things to make ever.  I think the Bisquick site has a ton of recipes for scones ... I've probably made most of them.  LOL!

Dried fruit scones are really good too.

If that is your fireplace, I love the gizmo for hanging your pots off of it ... I forget what it is called.  I'm looking for a good "spider" as my fireplace isn't really big enough to "hang" stuff on.

I've seen some Dutchies with legs, but I'm looking for something more like a skillet and/or griddle that has the legs.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Mon Feb 12, 2007 at 15:17:25 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Kathy

When I had the fireplace built the swing arm was something I told my husband I just had to have. I am so glad I did itnow.
I also make chili in a cast iron pot I hang from the arm.
I have several three legged dutch ovens but have only seasoned them so far. I am hoping for some more cool days so I can use the fireplace more.

Life is not so short but that there is always time enough for courtesy. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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by: mojo @ Mon Feb 12, 2007 at 15:23:19 PM CST

[ Parent ]

skillet w/ legs

Kathy, you can always take your black iron skillets and sit them on bricks w/ the coals shoveled in underneath. I do that all the time. It's amazing how fast you can get potatoes boiling in a dutch oven that way.

I take 3 bricks- plain old red bricks - and set them in a triangle with little gaps between them for air, but close enough to set the pan on, get a shovel full of nice coals in there and plunk your skillet or dutchoven on top. Occasionally I add more coals or puff them up with a small bellows. The pot hanger is called a crane. I have a 5'6"w x 4'H colonial fireplace in my diningroom and I cook in it all the time in the winter. My biggest wish is for a real reflecting oven with a spit.

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by: cinda @ Mon Feb 12, 2007 at 15:45:51 PM CST

When Will This Be Safe?

I have tried very much to be open-minded about outdoor cooking, but I am not convinced that it can be made safe.  As long as people are ambulatory, I do not believe outdoor cooking is a viable option for anyone who can see their neighbors.  If you are sitting outside cooking anything remotely palatable, and if living people can smell the smoke or the food, outdoor cooking will surely attract unwanted attention.  Apart from the risk from humans, what about the risk from the inhalation of viral particles that are airborne?  How do you protect yourself and your food from that risk?

Stick with the propane camping stoves and cook indoors as much as possible.  The less exposure the better.

You are running out of time.


http://tinyurl.com/37bl45

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by: Dr Dave @ Mon Feb 12, 2007 at 17:03:09 PM CST

When will anything be safe?

There are risks associated with any action ... and with any non-action.

Different situations will require different responses.  By the time most preppers get around to cooking out of doors ... if it gets that bad ... then I assure you, their neighbors will have been doing it long before then.

Unless you expect everyone around you to starve and be dead in short order, you are going to have to accept that they will scavenge or forage for food and they will come up with some or die of starvation.  The one thing ... assuming it gets that bad ... they won't be able to do is cook that scavenged or foraged food on a non-working stove top.  The only alternative is cooking it out of doors.  Thus why I say they surviving neighbors will be cooking out of doors long before the average prepper will.

Cooking indoors will require ventilation ... open window, up the chimney, what have you.  This will allow the odors of cooking food to escape.  In close quarters where there are a lot of hungry people, cooking inside is no guarantee of anonimity.  People WILL know you still have food.  Even MREs give off odor.  You can still smell bland white rice that is cooking.  There is just no way around it.

So, what you have is an acceptance of risk.  My redundancies mean that I can spread my risk further and further out until a modicum of normalcy ... or what passes for normalcy ... returns.  In your situation, you may find the risk of cooking outside never becomes tenable.  For those with different living arrangements, cooking out of doors may be their salvation.  Summer heat will drive the cooker out of doors as quickly as winter cold will drive them in.

Risk of fire will also be a concern.  And if accidents occur, cooking inside may no longer be an option.  The more options you have, the more redundancies you build into your plan, the less trauma there will be if something breaks down or your option of choice fails you for some reason.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 14:36:29 PM CST

[ Parent ]

One Last Word Of Caution

Kathy,

I have incorporated a lot of redundancies into my pandemic cooking plan, but they do not include any time-consuming, smoke producing, outdoor activities.  During the pandemic, my outdoor activities will be curtailed, if not eliminated completely.  Most of my cooking redundancies are intended for a very unpleasant, post-pandemic scenario.

The safest, quickest, cooking activies will take place indoors on propane camp stoves.

You are running out of time.


http://tinyurl.com/37bl45

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by: Dr Dave @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 14:47:42 PM CST

Go for it <grin>

Everyone's situation is different.  Some radically so.  The amount of fuel that I need to store to cook for my family of 7 is staggering.  Then there is the food itself.

I've been inventorying by two methods ... items and calories.  I'm very happy to say that I've gotten passed the six month mark on both methods.  That's no small accomplishment. 

Currently reliance on a generator is just not going to cut it for our family.  Even if we could afford a large, quiet generator, fuel storage would be near impossible ... and even if we could store the fuel, security of storing that much fuel would be prohibitive.  Not to mention, spending money in that direction leaves me less money to spend in other prep ares.

Our primary cooking source will be propane (assuming worst-case of no power) ... but again, how much fuel storage is possible?  I have over 25 single pound propane cylinders and two 20-pounders.  I have planned and budgeted for more as the funds present themselves.  But, what if something goes wrong?  I'm just not willing to turn my nose up at any option that will allow me to feed my five growing children.

As I've stated many times, everyone's situation will be at least slightly different.  Not everyone will have the luxury of being able to cook indoors and not everyone will be able to assume the risk of cooking out of doors. 

There is no panacea.  Everyone will have to evaluate their own situation and resources then plan and act accordingly.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 15:11:44 PM CST

[ Parent ]

1-lb propane canisters

Kathy, I have those 1-pounders too. Do you (or does anyone else here) know how many hours of cooking can be done on a single 1-pounder?

Or how many times can you bring two cups of water to a boil, or any such calculation?

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by: gardner @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 15:39:06 PM CST

[ Parent ]

device for refill 1lb propane

gardner, this is tangental to your question but is something I wanted to share, anyway: I just got a nifty little device, a brass fitting, at Harbor Freight that enables you to refill those 1-lb tanks from a 20lb one. If you have propane stoves or a Mr Heater, this could really be great. It was on sale for $17, regularly $20.

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by: Northstar @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 15:50:50 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Mr. Heater

Has anyone tried to use radiant heat from Mr. Heater directed at a solar oven to cook in doors when it snows?  What about radiant heat from fireplace + solar oven?

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

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by: anon.yyz @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 16:10:50 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Reflector ovens are great

I've cooked on reflector ovens before ... breads, cakes, casseroles, etc.  A reflector oven was a common kitchen appliance before the advent of the gas stove.

There is a little turning and watching of the food until you get the technique down, but they work fine with fireplaces (which is what they were originally designed to use with), campfires, etc.  I've never used one with a space heater, but the concept is the same I think, just a matter of getting the heat focused into the reflector.

A solar oven is just a type of reflector oven ... it collects and magnifies the sun's rays for the heat source.


Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 16:18:01 PM CST

[ Parent ]

These two should work together then?

http://www.sunoven.c...

http://www.mrheater....

Solves my snow day problem :-)

I think I will save energy this way. Heat goes into solar oven which eventually leaks out of the oven into the room. Kill two birds with one stone.

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

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by: anon.yyz @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 16:26:21 PM CST

[ Parent ]

refilling 1-pounders

how safe is that? The canisters I have say "Never refill -- may cause explosion"?

OTOH, if they make a device for refilling them, you'd think it'd be safe, but OTOH, why the explosion warning if it is safe?

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by: gardner @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 16:40:37 PM CST

[ Parent ]

refilling propane concerns

Hard to say... the ad says it's both "safe and legal" but I'm sure the truth is somewhere inbetween the two, what with fumes and etc.  Very simply made, it's a brass coupling about 3" long, made to fit a 20lb on one end and a 1lb on the other. Hmmmm, you've given me pause, though. I've never read the bottles I have, and no doubt they say the same thing.

Anyone done this before?

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by: Northstar @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 18:08:30 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Refilling 1 lb propane: follow this and the next few comments

http://www.newfluwik...

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

---

by: anon.yyz @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 18:31:51 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Sorry, this one onwards

http://www.newfluwik...

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

---

by: anon.yyz @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 18:33:06 PM CST

[ Parent ]

re: 1 lb propane canisters

Depends on a lot of variables.  I can get several hours of usage out of one pounders when I am using only one burner of the Coleman kept at a low blue flame.  That's not just heating water though so if you are only heating water it would probably depend on the temp of the water to begin with.

When the family is camping I try and use water that has been in the car all day or in the canteen to cook with or heat up.  That is because its still got the warmth of the day and it doesn't take so much energy to boil.  Water that is coming straight from the tap is often colder and so will take more fuel to raise the temp.

If I had to make a solid guess, if you are using nothing but propane to cook with you will go through at least 2 per week on average depending on the kind of cooking you are doing.  When we are on a two week camping trip I can usually count on 4 canisters being enough ... and that is running the lantern on one as well, or a partially filled one. That was cooking most meals and heating wash water for dishes and kidlets.  But that might be offset somewhat because we usually camp at higher elevations than we live ... we live at 0' here in FL but usually go camping in the mountains, last time was at Glacier National Park and Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks. Higher elevations may make a difference, I've never really sat down and done the math.  Also, some of the meals I fix use other methods or we just eat sandwiches. 

I would not figure on using less than 2 lbs. per week for a family of any size.  One pound propane cylinders are about $2.25 each around where I live.  A new 20 lb. tank, filled, ran us about $43.  I can refill a 20 pound tank for about $13 dollars at the moment.  It is just barely less expensive to buy a new (and full) 20 pound propane tank vs. the individual one pound cylinders.  If I can find the empty propane tanks ... or have one or two given to me ... then I would be way ahead of the game cost-wise.

Its $2.25 per one pound cylinder vs. $2.15 per pound in a new & filled propane tank vs. 65 cents per pound for a re-filled propane tank.

At 2 pounds per week (at least), storing 6-months/26 weeks of fuel capacity:

52 One pound cylinders would cost $117 (that is two per week x 26 weeks)
Three twenty pound tanks would cost $129 (but note there is "extra" fuel because you actually only need 2.6 tankfuls)
Three re-filled twenty pound tanks cost $39

Anyone have any ideas where I can get some free 20 pound propane tanks ... empty is ok, I'll cover the cost of filling to save the cost of buying the tanks to begin with.


Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 16:14:05 PM CST

[ Parent ]

thanks, Kathy

For cooking I'll use a variety of methods. There are only two of us so it's easier to manage. Even if friends drop by, it should be okay--not pretty, but okay.

In cold months, most of the cooking will be on the woodstove. Experimenting with that right now, in fact.

In warm months I'm planning to use solar cooking or retained heat cooking as much as possible.

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by: gardner @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 16:56:17 PM CST

[ Parent ]

generators

For those that use small electric generators-
don't forget you can heat cans of soup, beans,stew,... on the exhaust of your generator.

Not exactly the best cook stove, but it can save you fuel every now and then if you plan of running the gen anyway. 

Just put a few holes in the top of the can and put it on the exhaust or exhaust manifold. 
As a kid we used to do that on the car manifold as we traveled.

Be Prepared

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by: DennisC @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 14:54:10 PM CST

Thanks DennisC

I knew an older couple who would heat soup this way on the pilot light of their gas appliances.  I've never had gas appliances (as an adult) so I quite get all the set up but basically they would do the same thing you are talking about.  Leave in the morning to go do whatever and by the time they came back, lunch or dinner would be ready.


Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

---

by: KathyinFL @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 14:59:00 PM CST

[ Parent ]

should be I DON'T quite get ... was outside in the rain too long today n/t

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

---

by: KathyinFL @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 14:59:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]

yes, just put the holes in the lid

The only real special care is to put a few holes in the lid so it will not blow up.

One of my back up house heaters is a propane heater with a pilot light - it will heat a can of soup nicely in just 10 to 30 minutes - depends on where you put the can exactly.

Be Prepared

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by: DennisC @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 15:37:20 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Is there any soot?

If I direct generator exhaust at a small stainless steel pot, is there enough heat to bring it to a boil? What about soot?

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

---

by: anon.yyz @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 15:46:23 PM CST

[ Parent ]

one the pipe

I just put my can on the exhause pipe itself, I don't use the exhause gas.
I just use it to heat beans and soups so I don't always get to a boil.
I am at high altitude so my most of my beans are in cans instead of dry.  It just takes too much fuel at this altitude to cook dry beans.

Don't get me wrong.  I plan on using the my coleman propane burner for most of my backup cooking, it is just that if I happen to be running my generator, I do expect to get a warm cup of soup or hot chocolate sometimes.

I have thought about using the exhaust up the center of my kelly kettle but I don't expect I will be using the generator much.  It is just for times when the sun is not out for a few days and I want to use my computer or something like that.

Be Prepared

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by: DennisC @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 17:13:50 PM CST

[ Parent ]

generators exhaust cooking

I could direct the exhaust pipe into a 4 inch sheet metal duct with a 90 degree elbow so the exhaust heat is directed upwards like a chimney towards the bottom of a pot. I do know the exhaust is very hot, so this will recover some energy loss. Since fuel storage is such a big problem, every bit of savings help.

I was planning to get the duct anyway with the outlet pointing downwards outside the shed where the generator is placed. It will now be positioned upwards for outdoor cooking :-)

Thank you for the great idea.

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

---

by: anon.yyz @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 16:50:32 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Dutch Oven How To's

(have had this for years from a scouting ebook, lost the original citation for it, its been around the block a time or two)

ABOUT DUTCH OVEN COOKING

A Dutch Oven is a must for delicious camp-out feasts! Just about anything you cook in a regular oven -- pies, bread, stew -- can be whipped up in a Dutch Oven, using hot charcoal in your campfire ring. Dutch Ovens are
commonly defined to be any covered metal cooking pot. The kind used for camping is made of heavy cast-iron though, has three short legs on the bottom, and a tight fitting lid with a rim to hold coals. Dutch Ovens that do not have legs, are flat on the bottom and have a highly domed basting lid without a rim for coals are called "Bean Pots" or "Kitchen" Dutch Ovens. They can be used with coals, but are better suited to use on a stove top or in the oven.

The only way to successfully cook in a Dutch Oven is to properly season it first. When you buy a new Dutch Oven it is usually coated with a waxy material to protect it. To obtain the desirable non-stick properties of a well-used pot takes a little time and effort. To season your Dutch Oven, wash the Dutch Oven with mild soapy water, rinse, and dry completely. Grease inside and out (pot, legs, and lid) lightly with a good grade of olive or vegetable oil (I prefer solid shortening e.g., Crisco). Do not use lard or other animal products as they will spoil and turn rancid! Do not use a spray in coating, but rather use an oil soaked paper towel or new sponge. Place greased Dutch Oven upside down on oven rack with lid separate and put
aluminum foil underneath to catch any excess oil. Bake in a 300-350 degree oven for at least 1 hour (it will probably smoke and stink up your house!). If you'd rather heat it outside to avoid the smell and smoke in your house
you can do that also... a gas grill works great for this.

It will take more than this initial seasoning for the pot to obtain the desired uniform black patina (like a satin black bowling ball) that provides the non-stick qualities and protects the pot from rust, but the seasoning on your pot will improve with each use if it is properly oiled and cared for. Re-season your pot regularly and especially if it starts to rust or has a metallic taste -- this is a sign your seasoning has been removed. Repeat seasoning steps if this happens. You should also re-season after storage or if it smells rancid. Once your Dutch Oven is seasoned it should never be scrubbed with soap. Store the oven in a warm, dry place with the lid cracked so air can circulate inside.

Cooking Tips: For easy cleanup, line the bottom and the sides of the Dutch Oven with aluminum foil. Use a wooden spoon to stir, and always cook with the lid on. Unless you like ashes in your food, don't tilt the lid when you
remove it. When you do remove the lid or handle any part of the hot oven, use cooking gloves or hot-pot tongs. A Dutch oven seems indestructible, but it will shatter if dropped on hard cement or it will crack if cold water is
poured into a very hot Dutch oven. NEVER, REPEAT, NEVER! pour very cold water into an empty hot pot or you may cause permanent damage to the oven (cracking)!

Heat control is the hardest thing to master when learning to cook with a Dutch Oven. Remember to start with moderate temperatures. You can always add more heat  if desired or necessary. Be cautious, as most guests don't enjoy burned food! High quality briquettes are recommended. Briquettes provide a long lasting, even heat source and are easier to use than wood coals. Briquettes will last for about an hour and will need to be replenished if longer cooking times are required. Group the smaller  riquettes and add new ones (hot) as required to maintain the desired temperature.

Rule of thumb: Each briquette adds between 10 & 20 degrees.

Different types of cooking requires different placement of the briquettes.  Here are a few general rules for briquette placement:

For Roasting: The heat source comes from the top and bottom equally. This requires twice as many coals on top as on the bottom.

For Baking: The heat source comes from the top more than the bottom. Place 3 times as many coals on the lid.

For Boiling, Frying, Stewing, Simmering: All of the heat comes from the bottom. All coals are placed beneath the Dutch Oven.

Place the required # of briquettes under the oven bottom in a circular pattern so they are at least 1/2" inside the Dutch Oven's edge. Arrange briquettes on top in a checkerboard pattern. Do not bunch briquettes as they can cause hot spots. To prevent (minimize) hot spots during cooking, get in the habit to lift and rotate the entire oven 1/4 turn and then rotate just the lid 1/4 turn in the opposite direction. Rotate every 10-15 minutes. If you use wood coals, remember that the flame will be much hotter than the coals! Avoid direct flames on the pot or turn frequently. It is important to remember that these tips are only a guide to help you get started. You will
need to adjust briquettes (or coals) according to the recipe and keep in mind that the weather, ambient temperature, and ground conditions can affect cooking
temperature.

Here is a handy guide for the amount of charcoal briquettes needed for different sized Dutch Ovens to reach a desired temperature level:

8" DUTCH OVEN:
325 degrees - 15 coals ...OR... 10 on top / 5 on bottom
350 degrees - 16 coals ...OR... 11 on top / 5 on bottom
375 degrees - 17 coals ...OR... 11 on top / 6 on bottom
400 degrees - 18 coals ...OR... 12 on top / 6 on bottom
425 degrees - 19 coals ...OR... 13 on top / 6 on bottom
450 degrees - 20 coals ...OR... 14 on top / 6 on bottom

10" DUTCH OVEN:
325 degrees - 19 coals ...OR... 13 on top / 6 on bottom
350 degrees - 21 coals ...OR... 14 on top / 7 on bottom
375 degrees - 23 coals ...OR... 16 on top / 7 on bottom
400 degrees - 25 coals ...OR... 17 on top / 8 on bottom
425 degrees - 27 coals ...OR... 18 on top / 9 on bottom
450 degrees - 29 coals ...OR... 19 on top / 10 on bottom

12" DUTCH OVEN:
325 degrees - 23 coals ...OR... 16 on top / 7 on bottom
350 degrees - 25 coals ...OR... 17 on top / 8 on bottom
375 degrees - 27 coals ...OR... 18 on top / 9 on bottom
400 degrees - 29 coals ...OR... 19 on top / 10 on bottom
425 degrees - 31 coals ...OR... 21 on top / 10 on bottom
450 degrees - 33 coals ...OR... 22 on top / 11 on bottom

14" DUTCH OVEN:
325 degrees - 30 coals ...OR... 20 on top / 10 on bottom
350 degrees - 32 coals ...OR... 21 on top / 11 on bottom
375 degrees - 34 coals ...OR... 22 on top / 12 on bottom
400 degrees - 36 coals ...OR... 24 on top / 12 on bottom
425 degrees - 38 coals ...OR... 25 on top / 13 on bottom
450 degrees - 40 coals ...OR... 26 on top / 14 on bottom

16" DUTCH OVEN:
325 degrees - 34 coals ...OR... 22 on top / 12 on bottom
350 degrees - 36 coals ...OR... 24 on top / 12 on bottom
375 degrees - 38 coals ...OR... 25 on top / 13 on bottom
400 degrees - 40 coals ...OR... 27 on top / 13 on bottom
425 degrees - 42 coals ...OR... 28 on top / 14 on bottom
450 degrees - 44 coals ...OR... 30 on top / 14 on bottom

NOTE: For cooking times over an hour additional charcoal may be necessary.  Either have another batch ready to go after about an hour and a half or, at about an hour, place unlit briquettes next to those on and under the oven to
ignite them.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

---

by: KathyinFL @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 15:20:38 PM CST

Dutch Oven Recipes

There are so many different Dutch oven recipes out there I will mainly be listing websites where you can find a ton of them.

Byron's Dutch Oven Recipes
http://papadutch.hom...
Scroll down the page to see a lot of really good recipes.

MacScouter's Page
http://www.macscoute...
This is another outstanding resource for cooking with a dutch oven.  The bonus with this site is that it is understood that you will probably be cooking with kids (scouts) so the directions are nice and simple.

Scoutorama
http://www.scoutoram...
Another great scouting site that has a large  number of dutch oven recipes.

Cooking Cache
http://www.cookingca...
I've never used this website, but just ran across it looking for some new recipes.  Looks really thorough.

Idaho State University Outdoor School
http://www.isu.edu/o...

Lonestar Dutch Oven Society
http://www.lsdos.com...
Some tried and true recipes.  Very yummy.

Campfire Cafe
http://www.campfirec...
This site offers free episodes of a show based on Dutch oven cooking. 

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Thu Mar 22, 2007 at 14:08:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

KathyInFl - thanks for dutch over stuff

Thanks,

  The two web sits are new to me also
Cooking Cache  and  Idaho State University Outdoor School. Out door school - that is a helpful course.

Kobie

 

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by: Kobie @ Thu Mar 22, 2007 at 15:04:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

low or no smell cooking

Now I personally don't worry about my cooking smells and neighbors (I am remote).  There is a difference to cook for the joy of eating and cooking to survive.  My "short term" preps are nice and have a kinds of goodies, but my longer term preps are more along the lines of barley, rice and such. 

I say that to remind people of the thermos bottle cooking (see old yeller).  You can heat your water in a kelly kettle over sterno and then pour the water into the thermos and add rice and put on the lid.  There is virtually no smell to the thermos cooking alternative - even if you add things.


Be Prepared

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by: DennisC @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 15:34:14 PM CST

I like thermos cooking

but was reminded by a park ranger than even if we don't notice a smell doesn't mean someone ... or some animal ... won't.

The smell of cooking white rice is very strong to me, but I have friends that say they can hardly smell it.  Same with grains.  Its funny, I am one of those people that have a "high smell threshold".  LOL!  Stinky stuff doesn't bother me (well, not much) and I'm not very sensitive in the nose area.  My husband and oldest daughter on the other hand have very sensitive noses and can smell things the rest of us can't a mile off.  But I'm more sensitive to cooking grains of any variety than they are.

After some research, I've found that when we are hungry our other senses get very focused and sensitive.  If we are hungry, we will notice a smell quicker than we would if we were satiated with food.  This will even happen with water if we are very thirsty.  Hungry people will be smelling stuff with a lot more accuracy than we may realize.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

---

by: KathyinFL @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 15:53:15 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Thermos cooking

KathInFl,

  Is there no end to your cooking skills, no depth un plumb?

  I assume thermos cooking is filling the thermos with hot water to pre het it then putting all the hot ingrediants in to sit - aka crock pot style???

Kobie
"186,282 miles per second. Its not just a good idea - its the law!"

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by: Kobie @ Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 07:30:32 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Kobie, re: cooking in a thermos

yeah, thermos cooking is about like that.  Years ago I learned this really neat "best breakfast" recipe that you make in a thermos ... for the life of me I can't remember the recipe at the moment but it was like a multigrain cereal cooked overnight with boiling hot water.

I like oatmeal.  I like grits.  Wheat based cereals are OK ... but I personally prefer oats and corn based cereals.  When my mother in law was still alive she watched my two oldest when they were babies ... she fed the cream of wheat.  She would go near grits and oatmeal because she ate a diet of that exclusively when she was growing up in the Ybor City barrios. 

You can also do instant foods and most freeze dried foods this way.  I haven't had a lot of luck with regular pasta ... but those pastas dishes that were meant originally for the microwave aren't too bad in a thermos.  Dried soups are fantastic in a thermos.

Its saved a lot of time for me on more than one occasion.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 16:23:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I don't know where you get your information...

...but this is awesome! I've had a cast-iron dutch oven for years, and only used it on the stove. My dad taught me how to season it, and it's been a great kitchen tool for as long as I can remember! Thank you...

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by: Bronco Bill @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 15:56:57 PM CST

BB ... I'm a 40 year old scout of both persuasions. LOL!

I've been in girl scouting in one form or another since I was in 2nd grade and now have three daughters in scouting.  I've also been involved with cub and boy scouting since my oldest son was in Tigers.  That is my primary experience with Dutchies.

My other outdoor cooking experience ... and other alternative methods ... comes from growing up camping with my family (mostly around TVA dams and lakes for fishing) and experimenting now that I'm an adult with a family of my own.

I've had that paper around for years.  I can't even remember where it originally came from, but I've printed it out a number of times as each copy wears out and refer to often.  The briquette rules also apply when using a box oven.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

---

by: KathyinFL @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 16:33:33 PM CST

[ Parent ]

cook time

for the coleman  single burner I get 2 hours on low and about 5 hours on high.  I average about 3 hours on a single 1 lb tank.  But I am at high altitude (9000 feet) so the numbers may be a little different for you.

I should say that it is my first backup cooking system- solar (via array) is second and wood is third.

Be Prepared

---

by: DennisC @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 15:58:47 PM CST

thanks. n/t

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by: gardner @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 16:05:59 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Coleman propane stove with a 1lb. tank

Are you planning to use the Coleman propane stove with a 1lb. tank inside the house?  I have read that they are only for outside use.  Could they be used in a fireplace (unlit) with the flue open and the glass doors closed?

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by: nervous2now @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 16:28:54 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Personally I'm not realy comfortable using the propane stove indoors

so I've tried to make provisions for using it in a room with a screened door.  I don't have a fireplace at my primary residence but do at my secondary residence.  I might try an experiment with the coleman and a co2 alarm to see what happens next time we are up there.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

---

by: KathyinFL @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 16:36:35 PM CST

[ Parent ]

not exactly inside

I am lucky in that I have a green house connected on the backside of my house.  I have my generator, batteries, and propane cook stove there.  So no- I will not be cooking with wood or propane inside the house.

I must admit that I also use the greenhouse as a "filter" for my house air.  So I could get some of the fumes into the house.  However, I have noticed very little problem from propane stove fumes. 

On the chemisty side, there should be little problem with "smoke" from propane flames.  It (propane only has 3 carbon atoms per molecule) just does not have the big bad molecules (like all that tar ans stuff that ends up in your stove pipes) like wood and coal.  So if your flu is safe for wood fires it should be safe for propane. 

Be Prepared

---

by: DennisC @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 17:01:09 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Thanks.

I had my flue cleaned and inspected this fall. I guess the CO from a propane stove could exit the house as easily through the chimney as the CO from a wood fire.  Why can't you use charcoal in a fireplace?  I know you can't.  I just wonder why not.

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by: nervous2now @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 18:12:36 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Make sure your chimney can handle it.

During power outages, it is not uncommon to hear about chimney fires due to excessive use of fireplace or under maintenance of chimney. I saw one on TV, sad story.

You want perspective. I want perspective. Let's talk. We don't have to agree on every thing. If we do, one of us is redundant.

---

by: anon.yyz @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 18:37:10 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I think someone said it doesn't get hot enough to produce a draft. n/t

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."  Flannery O'Connor

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by: Jane @ Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 21:40:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

CO troubles

I thought the CO produced was heavier than air... if it doesn't go up the chimmney, you're still in trouble when you open the glass doors.

I'm in the same boat... when it's cold out, it's almost pointless to try to cook with gas outside. And inside, it's dangerous.

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by: Northstar @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 18:14:52 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Propane Indoors

Thousands of people have been cooking indoors with propane ranges and ovens for decades.  Propane camp stoves are no different.  Hardly any CO is emitted.

You are running out of time.


http://tinyurl.com/37bl45

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by: Dr Dave @ Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 18:11:11 PM CST

Homemade Portable Grill for "Bug Out Bag"

Found the follow direction on a Wagggs (World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts) website.  Sounds interesting and is certainly compact enough for a bug out type situation or for an emergency grill.

Cookie Tin "Grill"

Each girl receives a cookie tin (shortbread at Christmas time?) with a lid. Using a juice punch, holes are punched around the bottom rim - about 8-10 holes will do. A paper bag with about a dozen charcoal briquets are stored inside the tin, and a small round cake rack (Dollar store, again!) is placed on top and the lid put back on. The lid can be taped down and this portable barbeque can be transported in the guide's backpack.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Thu Feb 15, 2007 at 11:40:36 AM CST

Duffle stove

Kathy, here's an even simpler one I've devised for our bug-out bags: Start with a large coffee can. Then take a large peaches can (29 oz size) and take the lid off... use a poke-style can opener to make triangular  holes around the top. Make a buddy burner out of a tuna can (I use wood stove pellets and a candle wick and wax.) Nest the buddy burner inside the peaches can inside the coffee can... with a small dollar store pot, you can light the buddy burner and rest the pot on the inner peaches can. (The little pan should be a size to fit down inside the coffee can still allowing a little space for air exchange.)

Now put matches and a candle stub in a baggie, and some basic food supplies and put the coffee can top on.  (I have pop tarts and nutribars which all fit in the can.) All of it goes in a small duffle with some dehydrated potato soup and a bottle of water each and -- wa la! A wonderful little car safety bag, too. I've made them for my nearest and dearest in case they are stranded during a snow storm. The buddy burner within a can within a larger can seems a lot safer than others I've seen, too.

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by: Northstar @ Thu Feb 15, 2007 at 12:13:20 PM CST

[ Parent ]

we need to wikify this, and add ...

http://rocketstoves....

http://rocketstoves....

http://www.aprovecho...

http://video.google....

http://weblife.org/l...

then we just need to keep the internet up (or maybe other channels), and we'll have lots of things to use!

You arm yourself to the teeth just in case.  You don't leave the gun near the baby's hand.

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by: lugon @ Mon May 14, 2007 at 08:29:40 AM CDT

Bump n/t

United we stand: Divided we fall

http://cottontopssandbox.wordp...

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by: cottontop @ Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 13:23:57 PM CDT

Raw Ravioli

Don't really have a diary for this recipe, but I have to say that it is worth still at the back of your recipe collection.  Gave this a try, just for the heck of it as I was trying some living/raw food dietary recipes and it wasn't bad at all.  Have a friend who is into this so I wasn't really out any money on special ingredients; your mileage may vary.

If you don't want to go totally living food, you could use a ricotta cheese or cottage cheese instead of the nama shoyu.

Raw Ravioli

Wrapper:  4 turnips

Peal the turnips. Slice the turnips into very thin slices by cutting them in half and then using a spiral slicer, mandolin or other vegetable slicer to make thin round disks. These will be used as the wrapper which would normally be the pasta dough.

Cheese filling:

1 cup pine nuts
1 cup macadamia nuts
1 cup walnuts
6 t Braggs or Nama Shoyu
8 t lemon juice
2 cloves garlic
1 cup parsley

Blend the pine nuts, macadamia nuts and walnuts in a food processor until ground. Add the rest of the ingredients and blend well, until creamy.

Tomato Sauce:

2 large tomatoes
1/2 cup sun dried tomatoes
1/4 cup fresh basil
1 clove garlic
6 dates
dash of olive oil (optional)

Soak the sun dried tomatoes until soft. Blend in food processor: the tomatoes, sun-dried tomatoes, basil and garlic until well blended. Add the dates and olive oil and blend until smooth. This sauce should be thick.

Directions for assembling the ravioli:

Remove a single turnip slice from the batch. Place a teaspoon full of cheese filling in the turnip slice and fold the turnip over until all the sides meet. Squeeze the edges together. Some of the filling will ooze out; but this is what will hold the edges together. Just put the excess back into the bowl to reuse. If you don't have enough filling in them they will not stick together. Place them in a single layer on a large plate and drizzle the tomato sauce on top; allow to sit for a few hours. The turnip will become soft from the tomato sauce. Use a spatula to scoop the raviolis up and serve.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

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by: KathyinFL @ Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 11:59:10 AM CDT

Bump n/t

United we stand: Divided we fall

http://cottontopssandbox.wordp...

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by: cottontop @ Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 21:53:18 PM CST