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Flu Wiki Forum
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MF59
Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 23:01:56 PM EST
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This diary is a continuation of the previous discussion Risk of Anaphylaxis Associated with AS03-Adjuvanted H1N1 Vaccines.
As far as I can tell, there has been no new reports of anaphylaxis from Canada. It is hard to interpret such absence of reports, since vaccination rates are going down (see Vaccination clinics in Ontario start to close their doors). Plus everything depends on the accuracy and promptness of reporting by local health authorities, and the speed with which the Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC) shares that information. PHAC has a Weekly Vaccine Surveillance Report page, which has finally been updated, to include information up to Nov 14. They are now confirming 24 cases of anaphylaxis. 6 of these were from the batch of vaccine that was recalled. Of the 172,000 doses, all but 15,000 were used up, which gives us an incidence of around 3.8 per 100,000 doses distributed for that particular batch. The one fatal case, in Quebec, did not receive a dose from that batch.
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Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 19:40:44 PM EST
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UPDATE - see new post and reference concerning similarity of symptoms and risk of delayed treatment, in this comment
This is a diary that I had wished I would never have to write - if I could have convinced myself the scenario described here can't possibly happen. It addresses a hypothetical scenario that may or may not happen, but if these concerns turn out to be valid, they have the potential to cause severe or even life-threatening consequences to some unknown proportion of people. I am going to state very clearly right up front, that this is highly speculative, and to ask that anyone who has the slightest inclination to take (or change) any action as a result of reading this, to please read my disclaimers, for your own safety as well as my sanity! Thank you!
So here's the problem. Influenza activity due to the 2009 H1N1 is widespread in many places. To get a sense of how quickly it sweeps through communities, take a look at this animated map for BC (British Columbia) in Canada. At the same time, mass vaccinations are under way, in many cities. Scenes like these are being repeated in Canada and many other countries.
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Fri Oct 23, 2009 at 20:28:32 PM EDT
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"We typically see, for effective adjuvants, increased reactogenicity, an FDA term for feverishness, sore arm at the site, which we typically see with non-adjuvanted vaccines but often see more in the presence of an adjuvant.
"I want to point out it is very unclear whether these ever correlate with more severe adverse events. You know occasionally they do. But we have not found, to date -- (unclear) but the flip side is it would be difficult to find, for example, that increased local reactogenicity or feverishness down the road increases the commonality of some of the more severe adverse events that we might be concerned about such as neurologic events.
"There just aren't those data."
Jesse Goodman, Chief Scientist, FDA, Dec 2008
Workshop on Adjuvants and Adjuvanted Preventive
and Therapeutic Vaccines for Infectious Disease Indications
Part 1 is here http://www.newfluwiki2.com/dia...
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Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 00:03:35 AM EDT
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We have studied serum cytokine profiles in BALB/c mice after immunization with influenza vaccine...The MF59-based adjuvants significantly increased the IL-5 and IL-6 levels, Valensi (Chiron/Novartis) 1994
IL-6 is a pleiotropic* cytokine that is involved in the physiology of virtually every organ system. Aberrant expression of this cytokine has been implicated in diverse human illnesses, most notably inflammatory and autoimmune disorders, coronary artery and neurologic disease, gestational problems, and neoplasms. (Hong 2007)
*pleiotropic = multi-functional
UPDATE: Part 2 of this series is here The Meaning of 'Reactogenicity'
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Fri Oct 09, 2009 at 19:52:29 PM EDT
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Serious RANT warning: I may decide to delete (or alter) this diary at some point in the future (or not), not least because I can't guarantee that all the information I give are 100% accurate, (they probably are 99.99% accurate), when I'm so mad I can't see straight. Just so you're aware if you are going to post comments. And, there ain't gonna be any links, to anything, for ditto reasons (not yet, for now).. If you want to know the source for anything, ask me some other time, like tomorrow.....
UPDATE (Oct 10, 2009) The rant warnings still apply LOL, but I'm working on adding links, references, and further explanations of the issues that triggered this outburst, which in essence describes some core issues that bother me, a whole lot... So, if you are not a FW regular, feel free to visit after a couple more days and you'll probably find this place chock full of information. Thank you for your patience. ;-D
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Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 01:52:11 AM EDT
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OK, carry on with the science. As I said in part 1, our immune system is a result of evolution. The primary evolutionary need is/was to defend against invasion by infectious disease agents or pathogens, but the same basic immune response is used when other antigens, including vaccines and self-antigens, are detected. To protect the host effectively, the immune system has to do 4 things:
- pathogen recognition: the presence of an infection must be detected.
- effector functions: cells of the immune system respond to contain the infection and if possible eliminate it completely.
- immune regulation: the immune response must be kept under control so that it does not itself do damage to the body.
- immunological memory: when the initial immune response is over, the immune system stores the 'memory', in order that subsequent encounters will result in stronger, more efficient response.
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Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 23:10:39 PM EDT
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At a recent FDA advisory committee meeting to discuss their approach to swine flu vaccines, the GSK representative, guy called Bruce Innis, said:
I think all the manufacturers have presented data that shows that the effects of the adjuvants are limited in time, limited to the space where it is injected and in the draining lymph nodes. They don't have widespread activation of the immune response, and there isn't plausibility that they would activate autoimmunity in organs separate from the muscle where they are injected.
Is he right? There are 2 (non-exclusive) ways to find out. One is to go through the meeting transcripts and see if they did present such data (I did, and they didn't). The other is to take a look at the science.
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Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 20:05:25 PM EDT
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Click on the links for
A newly published study appears to refute the connection between the presence of anti-squalene antibodies and Gulf War Syndrome, but is it convincing?
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Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 22:07:21 PM EDT
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( - promoted by SusanC)
UPDATE: Novartis has finally confirmed what we suspected. A review published by the company Safety of MF59™ adjuvant (Schultze 2008) states:
the results of Novartis' GLP toxicology studies performed to fulfil global health authority requirements for clinical testing or product approvals have not been published, to date.
Click on the links for
Exploring the safety data on MF59 and MF59-adjuvanted vaccines.
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Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 12:47:02 PM EDT
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( - promoted by SusanC)
Click on the links for
Reading the fine print, on the safety profile of adjuvanted flu vaccines.
The equivalent of "read the fine print" for a scientific paper is "read the data". The interpretation of the data can be skewed by an author to support a larger agenda Or an author can make mistakes.
Gary Matsumoto, Vaccine A, published by Basic Books 2004, p 134.
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Sun Oct 14, 2007 at 01:26:28 AM EDT
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( - promoted by SusanC)
Click on the links for
The debate on the safety of oil-in-water adjuvants has received renewed attention on flublogia after the revelation and concern that tptb might be considering adding adjuvants such as MF59 to prepandemic vaccines. There appears to be a fair amount of misunderstanding or confusion on this subject, and concerns whether all of this is nothing more than internet conspiracy rumor, so I thought this might be a good time to re-visit the issue.
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Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 23:26:27 PM EDT
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( - promoted by SusanC)
Click on the links for
The world of science is a strange place. You would have thought that different people working on the same substance, one group set on figuring out how to use it, the other trying to find out how it harms people, will at least have heard of each other and hopefully talked to each other from time to time. Apparently, that doesn't happen, not in ways that you can take for granted anyhow.
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